Modding task force wanted!, See the Support forum Options

[mmk]

Sorry for cross-posting, I just wanted to point the post I have made on the support forum.

Please feel free to discuss it in this topic.

[PlacidDragon]

Thanx a lot for the updates Martin, and thanx for a closer ETA on the patch, as well as what it fixes

[MrCat2U]

Me thinks DarkReaver needs to be shown this post so he can get access to the data to continue the MODs he is working on with Dev Support.

[PlacidDragon]

This should hold interest for all our "new" modders i would think, like Darkreaver1980, DaniDE, etc

[Xentax]

I'd love to help but I doubt my employment agreement would be compatible with the NDA - and I probably can't commit the kind of time to make a worthwhile contribution, anyway.

However, I'd be glad to help with some of the more purely-technical aspects of the process if possible - I have a fair amount of experience with Postgres and VBA.

I was ultimately interested in making a visual tool to simplify basic changes to the various kinds of objects/settings. To do that, I'd basically need the kind of info DaniDE has been putting up, with the missing pieces filled in If the input side is a database instead of the game data files, so much the better.

[mmk]

The NDA would basically only prevent you from posting the data we give you on a web without our consent. It certainly should not interfere with your professional life.

We would supply the team with the information about the relationships between the various parts of the data (and the database should make them more obvious anyway).

We used Excel as a front end for editing data and I would recommend this (or maybe it could be adapted for OpenOffice). So the quest is to write the missing piece between Postgress and spreadsheet.

[Xentax]

Interesting. Wouldn't modders ultimately want something to go from the Spreadsheet to a mod file, though?

It may well be that the spreadsheet, if released, obviates a separate modding front-end, which would be just fine with me.

[mmk]

Yes, that is another part of the equation. Currently we have Perl scripts that work on the database. I think this should be re-written in any language that the database-spreadsheet communication is written in. These scripts will create the text files (of the kind DaniDE is 'hacking' here) and these will be then simply packed into .vfs files.

[DaniDE]

Hi.

If you use PERL scripts to work on a PostgreSQL database, that would mean that every modder needs a running PostgreSQL server engine running, and a working PERL interpreter too. If you make standalone perl scripts, you still need to set up the PSQL server. And then you need some sort of frontend, preferably a nice GUI to manage the database.

This sort of Server-Client method is very productive and usually "easier" to mod (speaking of overview and possibilites) but can be a pain to set up to most people.

At the moment, all you have to do is to extract ASCII files and change them. No compiling, no weird syntax problems...that is modding friendly for the masses. :-)


Going that way gives modders more freedom, but reduces the amount of modders. It could discourage some talented people. They have hundreds of excellent ideas, but are overwhelmed by the technical obstacles between their imagination and the actual mod. And it seems to me that modders tend to form closed groups who then enter some pointless and purely ficitional race for the "best", "first" or "l33test" mod, and do not want people with just the "ideas". You have to be able to make 3d modeling or be a graphical guru, and not just have ideas. Text based file editing is for everyone.

BTW when speaking of mods, I dont speak of the cheats I made for the folks who like such stuff *g*

I personally have a full time job, and am not seriously into modding currently.

Thanks,
-Daniel

[DaniDE]

I have to stop reading Internet forums. I am becoming like my father. Ranting and forcing my opinion on others. haha.


:-)

[PlacidDragon]

lol

[Darkreaver1980]

I wish i had the time to do it. But im working as a Webdesigner, so i dont have much time to spare

[Humble Warrior]

Good news on the Patch, but nothing on reducing ragdoll slowdown. BTW, excellent work on AS, the original Xcom team would be proud!

[Xentax]

Yes, that is another part of the equation. Currently we have Perl scripts that work on the database. I think this should be re-written in any language that the database-spreadsheet communication is written in. These scripts will create the text files (of the kind DaniDE is 'hacking' here) and these will be then simply packed into .vfs files.

So, I'm definitely interested (my fiance is actually interested in helping as well, for the technical aspects).

I agree with what DaniDE is saying about making the modding accessible for everyone.

But, Martin's spreadsheets are probably the best "front end" you can dream of. I suspect they have some rules setup to help avoid making invalid combinations, etc.

I think we'd really only need a new frontend for things like adding new sounds/models/etc. to a mod. If we create a way to export the spreadsheet to a mod file, that would handle the bulk of the work. The exporter would only need *either* the db or the original game files in order to know which files actually have changes.

Altar has done one thing to make using mods very easy - the fact that mod files will get loaded automatically if placed correctly (and mutually compatible with other mods present, of course). So we may not need a full 'mod manager' like the one developed for Freelancer, for example.

I haven't seen enough of the data files yet, but I tend to think decoding the data files - with Altar's help - will probably be easier than writing a new importer from the database, especially since we *have* to output to the game/savegame data file formats. But, I suspect Altar was thinking about the DB because I'm betting it's easier to "get" the way the data is organized in the DB than coming at the data files cold.

[Slaughter]

This all sounds very good Martin. I'll post it at StrategyCore soonish. There's one thing I'd like to know though. What about making new models and so on? We have the plugin for Milkshape 3D, but can it also be used with the Aftershock models?