Weapon Rebalance mod v3.17

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Full details of exactly what's been changed are listed in the history text file I've included within the ZIP archive.

This is a work in progress! As time permits (when I'm not busy playing the game or reading the forum) I'll be adding more changes. If you feel there is an item which is "out of whack" and should be modded, please let me know, either in this thread or by PM. Savegames created after using this mod should not be expected to work without the mod.

New items in mod: 84
New techs in mod: 18
Tweaks in mod: hundreds
Your fun factor: priceless

RECENT CHANGELOG -
new in v3.17:
changed: new main and system menu art
changed: added numerical values to the Glossary for the exact effects of most weapon accessories and wearable psi devices
changed: gauss rifles, gauss autocannons, and needlers now generate a very small amount of noise when fired
fixed: nailgun magazine size correctly set to 20
fixed: all bullets and shotgun cartridges have had their noise/light/thermal values changed from 0 to 1 so that weapon noise & light now operate properly

Thanks SW!

Question:

added: Recoil Compensator accuracy is now 1.05 (old value 0.85)
added: Silencer is now light 0 & noise 0 (old value light 1 & noise 0)

Does this mean that:

a- Recoil compensator will now increase your acuracy instead of decreasing it?
b- Silencer now acts as a flash supressor?(ingame)

That is what i see it as, yes (if i have understood the numbers correctly). The recoil compensator now gives better than standard (1.0 i imagine) accuracy from the first shot, and the silencer will now kill the light completely, acting as a flash supressor (in addition to killing the sound of course).

A. Yes. Instead of a 15% penalty you now have a 5% bonus. The bonus is based upon my "gut" feel for how much more accurate I am using one in real life (over an uncompensated firearm). If anyone has good hard statistics, please feel free to let me know. (BTW, in real life I've only used recoil compensators on high-powered rifles. The main use in the game is with automatic weapons, which is quite a different thing.)

B. Yes. The silencer is also a flash suppressor. My next release of this mod will adjust the "cost" (manufacture time) for both the flash suppresor and silencer to better balance things (since with my mod no one would ever desire to make just a flash suppressor).

Great, thanks again!

is it difficult to mod weapons and stuff? i mean can anyone pick it up if they put bit time to it?


I do like the changes a lot, tho few things i would done differently myself, each person has there own tastes right.

Yes, you can do it.

Such as? (And thanks.)

Is it possible to remove the rocket training requirement from under-barrel grenade launchers? I know its not much of a problem for rifles as you should have trooper training but for close range shotguns it can pose an annoyance as you'd rarely take the mechanic or trooper options for close range soldiers.

i like the general concept of changes they all good and go in the right direction, if was me tho i just be little more subtle with some changes, such as laser sniper range of say 150 or 140 ish, accuracy 80 maybe 85, laser rifle more like 250 damage, small things really.


What program is needed to edit the vfs files anyway?

cant say i would get deep into modding but i wouldnt mind adding my own personal taste

Possible, of course. Advisable? No. Successful use of GLs does require some training (trust me on this). Plus there's an issue of game balance: if you can use GLs without training, why would anyone bother trying to get Rocket Training?

And I know of no shotguns in real life that mount GLs. The fact that you can mount any under-barrel device on shotguns and machineguns in Aftershock is (IMO) a serious design flaw in the game (and leads to "exploits" such as shotguns w/ GLs). Pistols have a similar problem with their visor slot: just because you can mount a thermal imager on a rifle doesn't mean you should be able to on a pistol. Each weapon should have its own list of acceptable mods.

Hmmm I like the explosive modifications, but I won't use the mod, because I think laser weapons are overpowered.

The laser sniper range is 180 to make it a worthwhile choice even if you have conventional sniper rifles like the MSG90 (range 120). Otherwise the laser sniper's range isn't good enough to make it competitive against the higher damage of other sniper weapons.

The accuracy is tied to the weapon's max range. When modding, as you increase a weapon's range you must also increase accuracy to maintain the same value at a given distance (if a weapon has X% accuracy at 40m and max range of 50m, you must increase accuracy if you increase its max range to 60m to get the same X% accuracy at 40m). I have not yet figured out the formula for this. The values have been done by trial and error until they come out about right in-game.

The laser rifle damage is 280 because it should be better than the Reticulan laser rifles you begin the game with (which are 250).



Sigget's vfs tool, and a decent text editor with a good search capability. If you want to compare a mod versus the game's unmodded files, you'll also need a good file comparison utility. (It's built into the Total Commander directory util if you have that.)

Overpowered? How? Compared to what? I use the mod myself and all my troops are equipped with XM8s, MSG90s, M60s, and SPAS 15s. Bullets hit harder than lasers (still), and the ammo takes up less space.

The whole composing section is unbalanced. I find standard human tech with some well chosen add-ons are better than the more "advanced" weapons. My snipers almost exclusively use the MSG90 with sniper scopes over the laser sniper rifles and thats with the accelerators not working.

My troopers are all armed with XM8's with gyrostabilisers, movement sensors and when they work, accelerators. Its a similar story with the M60E3 machine gun. I only take energy weapons for dealing with starghosts or sonic guns for capture mission. For every other mission I don't bother with Plasma or laser technology. I find a SPAS12 with a gyrostabiliser is powerful enough to deal with anything up to a wargot soldier so I don't even bother with a Plasma shotgun

I agree. If you have specific suggestions on an item by item basis, please make them and I'll see about adding them to the mod.

You are right especially that some of enemies are susceptible to laser weapons (btw. as we all know laser weapons are great in cosmos but in earth's atmosphere water vapour/steam reduce its power )

I think that this mod make game to easy . Make some modyfication to rise difficulty for instance overpowered sniper weapons (sic !) : remove burst mode , rise reload time and decrese rate of fire


btw. Could you put all modification in separed files ?

I've been looking into modding the M82A1 Barrett, but in order to reflect the increased real-world damage of the .50cal round (as compared to 7.62x51mm) I'd have to increase damage from the current value of 850 to about 2800 (which is 40% more damage than getting hit by a missile in the game). The Barrett's real-world range is also much more than the game's laser sniper rifle (even with this mod).

Comments/suggestions?

All I can really think of is "nerfing" human weapons so the add-ons become a requirement to get them up to future tech.

I had a single level 3 sniper with an upgraded MSG90 using headshot take out almost the entirety of a cultist squad single handedly. Even with the increased targetting time and accuracy penalty I was still firing at 99% and only marginally slower than the level 2 sniper.

Prehaps making sniper rifles at least twice as long to aim with or significantly reducing the accuracy on a snap-shot would give them less command over the map.

Reducing the power across the board of all projectile weapons, especially the shotguns would also help bring them into line.

Sniper weapons:
- remove burst mode from all sniper weapons
- rise reload time for all sniper weapons ( by say 200 % after test this value can be change)
- increase(rise) accuracy of all sniper weapons ( 5-10 % )
- decrease rate of fire of all sniper weapons ( by 200 -400 % of base value)

I don`t know if this can be done but increase (rise) draw cost /preparation cost for all sniper weapons and decrease it for all other weapons (but not heavy weapons)

And

reduce accuracy of called shoots and decrease rate of fire of called shoots

Rise manufacture costs (time and materials ) of your modyfications ( by say 200 -300 % )

Assault rifles:
- decrease accuracy and range
- decrease power compare to laser/plasma weapons

Heavy weapons
- decrease accuracy
- rise reload time
- decrease rate of fire (rocket and grenade launchers only)

thought never really crossed my mind but i agree with the above, i think i would rather nerf human weapons to better balance them against the energy weapons, with the exception of rnage, i do feel energy should be better range.


do feel game is too easy a lot of time, we dont want to make it easier, but do want better balance

As you are so expert on weapons, let me ask you this. Why do aliens always outdraw my troops ? I mean running around a corner, pulling out a shotgun and still shooting faster then my trooper who was watching.

Cheers,
Lodewijk

Mirror added at StrategyCore.co.uk

They never had one.


None of these guns are bolt-action, so the current reload times are appropriate (using the times for other magazine-fed weapons as a comparison).


Good suggestion. I'll look into this.


Good suggestion. I don't know how to do this, but I'll look into it.


Good suggestion. I'll look into this.


Nice idea in principle, but then I'd have to also nerf the starting Reticulan weapons (making them almost harmless). If I didn't, then why would anyone switch from the starter weapons to the human ones? Do you begin to see the problem? All the weapons are "scaled" to the starter weapons. Unlike in Aftermath, you start this game with relatively decent guns. Nerfing the human weapons isn't the answer. However, if I boost the damage of the advanced weapons then people will complain that the game is even easier than it already is. IMO, the proper solution is to increase the challenge of the opponents, not nerf the weapons. Making the opponents tougher will be harder (and should be a seperate mod).

It is easy because he/she/it have better weapons skill (rifles etc) that your soldier or/and weapons with better rate of fire ( for instance assault guns shoot quicker then shotgun)

Does this also increase the blast radius of normal missiles and phophoreus missiles? (as powerfull from Darkreaver1980 his mod? --> like this on!)

If you remember WiseAvatar said that it is impossible to rise level of enemies but if you can do it ( make opponents tougher with better AI) it would be great !!! because it is like in JA 2 fight with 5 veteran (black) soldiers are very difficult but fight with say ... 12 green (red) are borring .


@silencez (from readme):
6mm phosphorus burst radius 8.2 (old value 4.2)
66mm frag damage 1800 (old value 1450)
66mm frag burst radius 8.36 (old value 3.36)
66mm reload 8.0 (old value 2.6)
85mm phosphorus burst radius 6.2 (old value 4.2)
85mm frag damage 1500 (old value 1350)
85mm frag burst radius 6.15 (old value 3.15)
85mm reload 8.0 (old value 2.2)
reticulan explosive missile burst radius 8.0 (old value 4.2)
reticulan explosive missile reload 8.2 (old value 2.2)
wargot rocket spitter reload 8.0 (old value 4.0)
wargot rocket launcher reload 6.5 (old value 3.5)

This is off-topic for this thread, but I'll answer it anyway (if you promise me not to continue this tangent). If your soldiers are actually on WATCH, then they almost always will shoot the alien first. At least mine do. Of course this assumes you have the game set to pause on spotting enemies, are preferably running time in slow mode, and the soldier(s) are facing the right direction. If you have to turn around you're going to get shot (in the ass). Suck it up.

My mod includes ALL the changes from Darkreaver1980's mod. Bezimienny's last post included an excerpt from my changelog showing Darkreaver1980's changes.

I'm not so sure that the enemies cannot be made tougher. At the very least their armor and/or weapons can certainly be made tougher/better.

You right I think about type of shoot ( snap etc). My mistake ;(



Ok Keep us posted because that modification can be great !! I love difficuty games

the starter weapons more powerfull for reason, mainly becuase your team is so terrible to start with, main prob with starter weapons is lack of ammo, and i feel this should be emphasied more

I would like to bring it to your attention, that to my knowledge, the Desert Eagle is a handgun that should really be classified as a cannon instead. With certain ammo types it has a recoil that can break your arm - and it also has the appropriate firepower.

So do not underestimate its punch.

Then again, im no weapons expert, just a casual fan of the weapon itself, so take my word for what it is: an opinion.

You are thinking of the .44cal version of the gun (or even the somewhat weaker .357cal). The version in the game uses 9mm ammo. Most people know just how weak a 9mm round is. It has virtually no stopping power, which is why you can put a half-dozen 9mm bullets into someone (assuming you miss any vital organs) and they'll still close to knife range and cut out your heart.

Until such time as I figure out how to add new ammo to the game I'll have no choice but to nerf the DE in Aftershock.

Well you know why they made the DE 9mm instead of .50 - it would have been the only gun using that ammo type, something they were trying to avoid this time around.

The SR-25 has a 2-shot burst mode, but I'm guessing noone uses it after you have access to better sniper rifles.

I wouldn't mind seeing at least one bolt-action sniper rifle added to the game...slower fire rate due to reloading after every shot, but should have an accuracy bonus compared to other firearms and should have big damage.

Your starting team in AS is no worse than in AM, and you have 4 instead of 2 (plus you can hire more, which is much harder to do in AM). In AS you start the game shooting Reticulans with the same weapons they are shooting at you with. In AM you start with shotguns and revolvers. By the time you get in range you've had all sorts of nice little holes burned into you. AS is so much easier a game starting off than AM was. This is why I play with the Alien Assault mod ... and at Impossible.

I'm all with you in modding the DE to use the .44cal ammo. You are right, i forgot that the one in the game uses 9mm. In fact i was kinda suprised when i saw that first, as i never heard of DE using 9mm ammo before. It is like building a pedal propelled buldozer. Sure it is tough and *could* demolish a house, too bad it got its *engine* nerfed

In fact i wondered about adding some new 5.56 and 7.62 ammo versions, namely 100 or 200 pcs box or belt, or i do not know what they come usually.

Guess i'm not the only one that finds reloading a machine gun 8x to have all 200 a pieces of ammo back in it, adding 25 at a time kinda.. odd.

But DE is only pistol in the game maybe just maybe change caliber from 9mm to .50cal ??




Yes and it is source of my mistake with burst mode

I was just about to suggest that. It may be entirerily inaccurate, but certainly does represent the 'name' of the gun more than making a lousy toy out of it.

In fact, balance wise i could imagine having a short range, low ammo capacity, high recoil, inaccurate but high powered handgun, rather than a noone uses it because it is so weak type.

btw: the DE has a .50AE version.
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/sma...sert_Eagle.html
based on some images there, it can mount scopes as well.

quote from a site detailing the use of DE in self-defense, or more accurately, why it shouldnt be used

Then again, i'm sure that aliens absorb bullet power a lot better than human bodies or stone walls, so gimme that .50 DE

One of my goals for my mod is to replace the SR-25 with the M24. And I'm also toying with replacing the MSG90 with the Dragunov. (That'll make things a bit harder for people, as the MSG90 is such a good gun in this game.)

This solution is very interesting .



I will keep fingers crossed

A little off topic, but contains some good ideas on what a DE can and can't do.

http://zvis.com/dep/articles/depdef.shtml

I always liked the idea of hand held cannons, now we just have to bring them into the world of UFO

Bezimienny, be aware that .50AE (a pistol cartridge) is not the same round as .50 BMG (a far larger, necked rifle cartridge). So changing the caliber of the DE in-game won't fix it. As I said before, it needs either new ammo (.44 or .357) or serious nerfing.

Sure it is not the same round, but be honest. Have you ever used those Desert Eagles in the game? I mean.. apart from the few missions where you had no ammo at the start of the game, and you were unable to manufacture anything else?

Bezimienny is merely trying to 'save' a gun from extinction.. just as i do. While modding new ammo type in may not yet be possible (will look into it), we can definitely 'pretend' the two ammo types to be the same. I have no idea atm what statistics are ammo dependant, but my idea is that none of the weapon stats really depend on the ammo used.

Then again, i may be wrong there.

btw: i sent you a PM.

I know this (now) but DE is the only one pistol in whole game so as csebal said



and 0.50 call . This can be a solution .

Guys, no offense, but please take the time to think a little bit more before making proposals. The .50cal is keyed to the Barrett, which is one of the requirements for researching & making AP ammo. If you make the .50cal ammo available earlier in the game you disbalance things.

As i told ya, i'll look into those files, and try to figure out a way to have new ammo types in the game. Though i have to add, that on some points the research requirements are plain stupid, and this is just one of those.

I think the only reason for it was to force you to research the majority of the weapons first, otherwise you would research the two guns you will use, and ignore all the others.

Hey, csebal, I agree.

Heck, I'd like to be able to make knives at the start of the game without also being able to make katanas.

We can add to prereguistis of "ap ammo " research something new for instance the Barrett sniper rifle. This will solved problem

Adding new ammo can be difficult but it is the best solution.

The requirement is already there. The problem is that you get the ability to make the ammo when you are able to make the weapon. If we allow making .50cal ammo for the pistol then we can also make the rifle ammo before we've researched the rifle (since they'd be the same ammo). That's not good.

The only proper solution (not just "best"), is to add new ammo. Csebal has volunteered to help me with this. Anyone else who's interested in helping me make weapon mods (or add new weapons and ammo) is certainly welcome.

Well, here is a solution... a possible one.. even though new ammo type would be the best option, but this would solve the research problems:

move DE to the .50cal category, change the research to require a 9mm weapon instead of a .50 weapon. Bang, problem solved. The .50 cal ammo does not interfere with research anymore, while you got the same ammount of research prequistes.

Ah well, i think i'll just go home, and take a look at those files so i can stop speculating