Oh, ok. I never thought of the research factor.

*Shrugs* I didn't have that much trouble with Wargots, even when using Normal AP-laden XM-8s. Mind you, I'm using version 3.08 of the mod, so I'm a little behind.

There is no appreciable difference between 3.08 and 3.12 with regards to the threat posed by Wargots. Actually, v3.10 makes it a bit easier to kill them as fire now does twice as much lethal damage.

I agree with 1stStrikeRecon that the Wargots are a bit overpowered in armor. A M60 with AP ammo should be able to pierce the same armor as a sniper rifle. Even if they all do not pierce the armor of a target, atleast 1 out of 3 should and deal substantial damage to a wargot. You seem to try to compare that assault rifle shots can not pierce the armor of tanks, that is not what we're talking about, unless the wargot with basic armor suddenly has tank armor, which would mean a sniper rifle wouldn't even be able to pierce.

A M60 barely does about 50 to 130 damage to a wargot while a sniper rifle can one shot kill them. In actuality a M60 has more muzzle velocity than a L115A1 by about 40 or so mps, even though the L115A1 has a larger caliber bullet, this would mean that an M60 would do nearly, if not more damage than a sniper rifle. You may question tactics, but I believe that it is not quite his tactics or squad choice. The PKM as well has a much, much higher muzzle velocity than both the m60 and L115A1 and has the same caliber as the M60. That would mean it should do more damage than that of both of the guns. The main difference between a sniper rifle and that of a machine gun is not of damage, but accuracy and use. A machine gun is more made for supressive fire yet a sniper rifle is made more to pick off targets. Even though you may beable to target better parts of a enemy (thus you have the skill from sniper rifles) you technically do not do any more damage than a one of the MGs listed above.

The XM8 has a muzzle velocity of about 1000 mps, which is higher than that of most other assault rifles, but it uses 5.56 caliber ammo. The HK33 which he was using, is only 80 MPS less muzzle velocity, other than that the XM8 is the exact same gun, just in a new casing. This would mean that they fire the same bullet and deal nearly the same damage.

Also, you accuse his tactics to blame, according to you he should have a squad of sniper rifles to win, I again have to agree that this is not a valid tactic on the assault in a real life situation, that is why we dont have people running around with sniper rifles like in Counter-Strike.

Difficulty affects your research, as it determines what equipment your opponents get, indirectly affecting your research in the way that you find items, such as mines, detection equipment, warp stuffs, before those in lesser difficulties.

These screenshots do not reflect my tactics. I have taken them to show various weapons and their effects on the Wargots.

One skirmish, showing PKM and M60.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/1st...keRecon/SS1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/1st...keRecon/SS2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/1st...keRecon/SS3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/1st...keRecon/SS4.jpg

Reloaded same skirmish, same weapons. However, in the last screenshot, you see an L115A1 Sniper shooting. He doesn't have L3, so he isn't headshotting:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/1st...keRecon/SS5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/1st...keRecon/SS6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/1st...keRecon/SS7.jpg

Reloaded same skirmish, now showing XM8 and L115A1 with Headshots:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/1st...keRecon/SS8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/1st...keRecon/SS9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/1st...eRecon/SS10.jpg

This grouping of screenshots is of special interest. Using a shotgun and XM8. If wargots armor is so resistant to small arms fire, why is it the Spas 15 does more damage with its buckshot round than my XM8 with AP Ammo?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/1st...eRecon/SS11.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/1st...eRecon/SS12.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/1st...eRecon/SS13.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/1st...eRecon/SS14.jpg

You will see in some of these images the fact that I do no damage at all. It is the low and no damage issue I refer to. Somehow, a sniper rifle can do more damage than rifles? The only difference is the placement of the rounds. A sniper rifle's design and use is inherently more precise. This doesn't mean more damage itself, but that where it hits is the cause of more damage. However, as is clear, an unaimed sniper rifle does far more damage than any number of bullets from my XM-8s, M60s, or PKMs. And an aimed sniper rifle shot, piercing their "Small Arms Resistant" armor can somehow kill them in one shot, where all my MGs and Assault Rifles cannot.

So, their "high resistant to small arms fire" armor somehow has a weakness to shotguns and sniper rifles?

All I can say is: LOL!

I have recently engaged the wargots usign the most advanced version of the mod. My team consists of 1 Laser MG, 1 mini-me, ranger dual mp7's , 2 snipers L115, 2 of the advanced 8 shot rifles not xm8. Classes are about like you would expect stealth for the snipers/ hp for the ranger mg people. AP ammo all around

I have had very few issues with the wargots thus far. Yeah they put up a good fight. Yeah i take some wounds nobody goes down. I do have to think for my kills and set up firing lines/ambushes but my weapons do seem adequate for the job.

I am getting around 150 damage per shot on my regular hits and 500 or so per crit on my MG's. I suspect what i am doing differently comes from my enemy skill. I take up as much as i can on all my people and it has a major effect. I am also splitting my fire. The mg's and the G'whatever advanced assualt rifle put enough lead in the air that I can always keep a wargot on the ground with 2 people firing into in and usually with 1. Also the x25(?) grenade launcher is really good at putting down and breaking up wargots. Anti-tank missles have almost full damage and a nice knockdown area. I would imagine the sachel charges shadowarror was so kind as to provide would work as well but i haven't tried those. Another trick I like is to knock them down then use a flamer to make sure they have a warm spot to lay in which kills them resonably fast.

This is in comparision to I when encountered WGs without the mod and all I had that could damage them(literally) were my level 3 snipers using barrets. It seems to me this mod has considerably increased the ways to deal with WG. Also what levels are you guys my teams are composed of lvl 16-20 people thanks to the advanced assualt mod(thanks again Shadow)

Well, you could:

1)rise the 'intelligence' of your men, so the 'enemy' skill get better. It seriously increases the damage inflicted by your people;
2)train some leaders;
3)don't take up WG missions (if you are as close to advanced weapons as you say) for now. Than take back the lost territory once you are better equipped.

In my game, WR 3.11, MGs with AP ammo literally mince the WGs. So I think your soldiers' skill might be the problem.

In this game, the HK33 does a base damage of 300 and the XM8 does 280. I may have to adjust those numbers if the XM8 has a higher muzzle velocity than the HK33. Thanks for pointing that out.

Difficulty does NOT affect what equipment your opponents get. Their gear is predetermined in various (many) text files that do not vary depending on the difficulty level. Your research has zero effect on what your enemies and allies use. If it did have an effect, then you would see the NPCs using the same weapons that I have added to the game. They don't, and the reason they don't is because I have not yet changed those files that tell the game what gear the NPCs/aliens have.

If he hasn't bothered to make/use the plasma weapons, or meson guns, or explosives, or flamethrowers, and yes, perhaps more snipers, then his tactics are to blame. Many other players (several of whom have posted in reply recently) aren't having the problems he is. Why is that? Because as you meet new enemies you must adapt your tactics to deal with the new threat. He's having a hard time because he hasn't changed. In the real world, officers who don't adapt to their enemies, and learn from their encounters, get their men killed. It shouldn't be surprising if the same thing is happening in the game.

Also, if his soldiers lack enemy skill, and lack helpful auras from leaders and psionics, then both his strategic and tactical planning is deficient. He simply hasn't learned how to create an effective team. If this mod kicks his ass then it's doing what it's supposed to do: be unforgiving to those who aren't top-notch players. I won't be adjusting the mod to make allowance for inexperienced players. That would be a disservice to the many players who want more challenge out of the game.

Well said SW

Something else i forgot to mention in my post that shadow brought up is the psionics and leadership abilities. If my solders are together as they usually are the entire right side of their picture is obscured by the varous bonuses and buffs they get. I notice from the pictures posted by the person having trouble that there isn't a single buff shown. I have actaully started running 2 psionics in my assualt team for more auroras.

My squads always stay together, except for my kamikaze borg commando who's so tough and so fast that he can run into and out of combat without having to worry about buffs. Otherwise, my squad gets auras from 2-3 psionics and at least 1 leader. That's a +30% boost to my entire squad's damage (adv dmg circlet), -50% degradation of enemy to-hit (adv interfere circlet), +2 stealth (adv cloak collar), and +50% psi defense (adv prot collar) -- just from 2 psi gals. A 3rd psi gal adds +30% accuracy (adv acc circlet) and +20% heal (heal collar).

oh and don't forget the paralizer and stun blaster both of which i believe work on our wargot friends. I was trying to get a psionic up high enough to become a sniper and tested her with those for amazing results. (any word on long range versions? wink wink)

The WGs are particularly vulnerable to psionics. But, as his pics show, he's using an all-human team. IMO, that's a huge mistake. Sure, it *is* possible to play the game (even modded) with just humans, but you *will* get your ass kicked doing it. His team is unbalanced, not the mod.

As for LR psi weapons, a problem is that psi weapons use psi skill/training and sniper rifles use LR skill/training. So any LR psi weapons will either lack body-part targetting (if I make the gun use psi training) and be usable by non-snipers, or be usable by non-psi (a BAD idea) if I make the weapon use sniper training. The game does not allow me to specify TWO ability requirements, or create new (combined) abilities. (That was discussed several weeks ago in this thread.) This is why I have not already created the weapons and included them in the mod. I stopped working on them when I couldn't figure out a viable workaround.

Yes, I now realize my problem is the lack of Psionics and leaders. I didn't think they made THAT much of a difference...

(Might be because I didn't research much into them, reading some earlier posts way back in release, all I saw where people complaining about how weak they were, so I avoided them [Im racist. Durn them lazy psions!])

Just a thought on LR Psi weapons... I remember there being an issue with an addon that allowing non-snipers to target body parts or something of that sort. Could that possibly be replicated and used for such weapons?

If so, then you could make the weapon solely Psionic and allow targetting. (Not a perfect solution, but thought it might be worth saying)

An add-on as a workaround, that's a great idea. Thanks! I look into it ASAP.

Just a very minor observation:

Would it not be more consistent for the VSS sniper rifle to require Advanced Sniper Rifle Tech? Everything else in the game that's silenced uses some form of advanced weapons technology, so the VSS stands out.

The VSS doesn't employ any advanced tech. It's actually a fairly "primitive" weapon, compared to guns like the XM series and the L115. Even the subsonic ammo is low-tech. Besides, I like the idea of a non-advanced silenced weapon. It helps to balance things.

Can I, liek, have a ublar strong nuclear missile launcher that, liek, blows up t3h whole woarld?

Lol, sorry. Was reading the EaW forums.

But seriously. Reading Tubal's post on skinning brought up something interesting...

How about a gillie suit upgrade/new armor for soldiers? It could be for snipers/scouts only and provide a low-tech stealth bonus (Not as great as personal cloak, but give some stealth capabilities to people as they get up to those higher tech levels).

Could further expand this, if possible, to have Optical Camo armor. Has awesome stealth abilities, but very, very poor protection. (Kind of like you're invisible right up until you strike, and if you don't make it good, you'll probably die).

Just some random ideas I had, looking at Tubal's skins.

If I created a new camo light armor, or ghillie armor add-on, would anyone use them?

And the answer is 'no' to a super-stealthy armor. In case you hadn't thought the idea through (and you haven't), very high stealth is good protection. You cannot hit what you cannot see.

If the new camo light armor didn't require special training, I'd probably give it to all my soldiers until I got something better.

Ghillie armor would be great, in my opinion, for my snipers.



I was thinking of something along the lines of high stealth until you fire, then you're revealed and very vulnerable. Kind of like Optical Camo Soldiers from Act of War. They were hard to find, and brutal if you wern't prepared. But get past their stealth, and they were terribly vulnerable to fire. However, I can see your point. Probably better to stick to a personal cloak with light/med armor.

Like I said, just some random ideas lol.

Cannot be modded. Stealth is an always-on effect (at least a working stealth is, as is the case for the stealth items in my mod). You cannot mod a Dungeons and Dragons Invisibility spell into this game.

Ah, yeah, that makes sense. Maybe possible in Afterlight?

One can hope!

let's hope a lot of things befome possible in AL in the modding sence, many good ideas had to be scrapped due to limitations/hardcode in the game (new/changed skills, ammo with multiple and/or sequential damagetypes, more armorslots, etc. The list is extremely long (even if it had only 1 unmoddable thing in it I would still find it extremely long ) )

but for now we'll have to settle with SW's excelent work

glad i didnt get too far in my new game, really looking forward to PSI's getting usefull, in my game they have been pretty useless ill have to say mostly just been Medic's now i see that PSI's might take the role as sniper/assassin instend of my humans

My L18 psionic snipers have been useful since L1, without any of the toys I'm currently working on. Anyone who believes that psionics are less than useful simply doesn't understand how to use them. That's the polite way of saying it. Less polite: they're clueless. A L115A1 is a great assassination weapon. So what if the enemy hears it? You can kill them so far away that it doesn't matter. Even better is the Railgun. More deadly and silent to boot. The upcoming psionic weapons are just to add more variety and options. They won't make your psionics deadlier than they can already be. Trust me, I probably know more about playing psionic snipers than anyone else on this forum.

Bullshit. All weapons DO normal ammounts of damage to WGs. Use combined team (energy+firearm weapons) and your always win!
I still think that even with HeroicAssault Mod the game rather boring and not challenging in the middle and espesially at the end!!!

Stop desturbing SW! We need him in a good shape

Have you tried v3.12 yet?

Yes. You mean SGs resistances? Nothing really changes - i always use warp/plasma/laser weapons against them. One exeption - 10+ defenders at the same time blocks you at the corner - then you dead...

I'm open to suggestions on how to make the latter stages of the game more challenging ...

Longer ranges on the SG weapons. If snipers are the ultimate in this game, give SGs the chance to do that. The Hover ranges are quite nice, but...the rest just don't cut it. Defenders are annoying at best, not really hurt by anything but not really capable of killing someone unless you leave them standing next to your troops for too long. The Spider's warp attack is pretty decent, but it's very short range. Perhaps a bit longer range on the SG cloud as well?

I realize I may be killing myself by asking for these alterations. Especially in CQC. But it'll be more fun.

I know how deadly my snipers are problem is with PSI's is they cant use armor upgrades like my humans can, Railgun with human cloak and sound dampener is sick , but would love to try out some long range PSIs weps insted just to have some other options then sneaking around and picking thos poor sods that popup so i am really looking forth to the new PSI items

Anyone who wants to see new skins for the items I've created in this mod should go to Tubal's Skinning thread and let him know how eager you are by asking him to expedite writing a skinning guide.

Yes, I know this is a shameless request to harass poor Tubal.

For WGs - may be new ammo (more damage) or increased weapons...
For SGs - increasing of range is a good idea but increasing damage at the same time much better

But all those improvements must accure at certain time by the events triggers (reseach or appearence of new enemies).

Any "improvements" that I may make can only apply universally. It is not possible to change an item in the game and restrict that change to a particular stage of the game. New items can be created, though, and only be given to aliens (or allies) at certain stages. But I have not added new items to any NPCs ... yet.

The SGs lack punch and diversity. Admitedly they are hampered by an extremley poor AI but their weapons are extremel poor, my men are more in fear of running out of ammo than dying against them.

Instead of the Star using a melee attack can it use an EMP attack similar to a grenade but focused on the Star itself.

Instead of the equivalent to a plasma shotgun could the defender use a weapon thats short ranged, weak, very fast and does warp damage.

Could the hover use a laser weapon instead of its stun weapon, can the cloud be given a long range stun weapon instead of its current stun weapon.

Thanks, Gastrian. Just the sort of feedback I was hoping to get. I'm especially amused by your suggestion for the Star, since they're immune to EMP themselves. Simply wicked. I have a feeling that a lot of folks are going to be cursing you when I get done tweaking the SGs. heh

hy!
does the weapon rebalance mod also work with the german version of UFO?
thx in advance

I was originally thinking that for the defender but they aren't immune to EMP. I'm not sure of some of the ideas becasue of skinning, animation and computer AI but could the Spider be turned into a walking gun platform similar to a drone. Its just that with dullaroy armour melee attacks for enemies seem to be a bit useless.

Also I'm not sure how it works now but can the Clouds be given auras similar to Psionic gear to give greater benefits to nearby SGs.

Welcome to the forum!

My mod works for most people with the German version, but there have been some reports of problems so I cannot make any assurance that it will work for you. However, if you back up your LocalizationPack.vfs file as per the instructions included with the mod, you should be able to restore your game should you have a problem.

I can probably do that, too. You, my friend, are having truly evil thoughts today. Thanks!

I've played against the SGs a few times and in about forty od missions I've only lost one man. I find SG missions to be more annoying than fun as the only challenge they present is to kill them without running out of ammo.

I re meber you fixed the hover drones so that they could go up ladders, did you do the same with SG Hovers? If you have it might be fun to apply that fix to all SGs (spiders are assumed to dig their claws into the wall and climb up the ladder using hook styled mandibles)

No, I've only changed the drone. But the idea to do the same for SGs has a lot of merit. Thanks. Keep the ideas coming!

i just researched the first tech in the basic weap lab.
i got some new things tu build in the basic weap factory.
4 new items. with different hours to build.
but there is no information about these items.
says string missing or something like that.
do you have any idea what this could be?

It would be great if the spider had:
1) 100% EMP resistance (already done, I know), combined with:
2) very short range (1 square) EMP grenade that he can 'throw' on himself all the time

This could create some kind of blast aura around the spider, so anybody that gets close is toast

But would the AI use such a thing

Did you back up your LocalizationPack.vfs file, and then copy the LocalizationPack.vfs from my mod into the directory where your original was? LocalizationPack.vfs does NOT go into the UFO root directory. Only the mod's .vfs goes there.

Thats the idea I've suggested for the Star.

I know you can't add in new damage types and you can only apply one damage type per attack but is it possible to have a weapon that fires three different shots in succession?

thx a lot. now it works...
well.. you shouldn't use mods if you are too dumb to read the readme with !!! in it

Sorry, no.

Would you believe I still get questions that are answered in the FAQ file I also supply with the mod? Humans have an unlimited capacity for stupidity.

Glad you got the mod working, and I hope you have fun with it. Cheers.

Hey,

The suggestions for the SGs sound really good, I can't wait for them to be done, as I have now finished Aftershock and would really like to replay it with the SGs actually being a bit more of a theat. As was said before, the only real challenge with them was not running out of Ammo.

I have not yet got to the WG with the latest build of the your mod ShadoWarrior, but I am looking forward to that!

and now for a random idea I had:

would it be possible to show the area of effect for the PSI items? A little like when you plant a mine you get the red glowing area. If this could be done, make the area of effect glow very light so that it could only just be seen, but I think that it would add to the overall atmosphere of the game.

I realise that this might not be possible, but thanks for your time ShadoWarrior.