The rules for engaging the Wargots on Superhuman with the Rebalance and Heroic Assualt Mods.

1. Close range combat = dead team, medium range combat = dead team quick. Engage the Wargots at long range if possible, retreat as they close if possible. A single salvo from any Wargot can knockout/kill/stagger anyone, therefore you have to kill them before they get in range. MGs and Shotguns can suppress and kill a Wargot at close range, but you are taking your chances, beating for a critical hit. Also, the Wargots have no problem launching an explosive at their own feet, it will hurt you worse.

2. The advanced sniper rifle is your best bet. Take 5-7 snipers to a mission if you can, and the map is fairly open.

3. Find a bottleneck. If none is available, find a new team.

I've had the most sucess lining up my snipers as far away from a bottleneck as possible and placing my Machinegunners and shotgun armed soldiers near the bottleneck. As long as the Wargots have to clear the bottleneck before engaging my snipers, life is good.

Ishantil, I also find the SPAS15 to be useful versus Cultist cyborgs, which are about as tough as the run-of-the-mill variety WGs.

Once you get gauss weaponry most WGs no longer present much of a threat. The rifle and MG gauss weapons chew up most WGs with only 1 or 2 bursts. Though the meson gun is still preferable to the railgun versus the most heavily armored of the WGs.

Burzmali is correct in his assessment of tactics versus WGs. The reason I mentioned the SPAS15 is not so that you use the shotgun offensively. That's suicidal. But in circumstances like that very first Wargot mission where your troops are randomly scattered, there's a very high probability that as much as half of your team will end up within 2-3 squares of a few Wargots. In such a position you do not have the time to run away, and you won't have the APs for more than a single sniper shot per sniper, which may not be enough to put down the all-too-close enemies. So the only viable weapon that can be used to save your ass is the SPAS15. You can get 1-2 bursts off per soldier, and the odds are in your favor that the target will go down, either dead or temporarily incapacitated. In the time it takes that WG to recover you can kill him and/or one of his buddies.

BTW, I forgot to mention that BEFORE starting that first mission make sure that ALL your soldiers have the SPAS15 in their hands, and their longer-range weapons (MGs & sniper rifles) in their packs. Why? Because you don't know who's going to wind up near a WG and whichever troops end up that close won't have time (APs) to waste in switching weapons.

And WGs are indeed fond of launching grenades right at their own feet, if it can hurt you in the process. They don't care about the damage it does to them. And it will hurt you more than them.

Dear Shadowarrior:

a couple of questions about your mod:

(1) I've seen that some guns (specialy SMG like colt 9mm and mp5) are no longer single hand usable, but double handed like assault guns, my question is: what other guns (apart from desert eagle, uzi, laser pistol) can be used with ambidextrous rangers? New guns, perhaps?

(2) As far as I understand for the comments in the txt with your mod-history, SG are now practically invulnerable to standard fire-guns. So I understand that it will be impossible to battle these guys without researching a whole new branch of technology and guns. Am I correct?

Thanks in advance, and let me tell you that you' had done a great job, I will be installing your mod soon

I've used the SPAS15 on the WGs, but it lacks staggering power against the "fully" armored (not Power Armor) WGs. The only real solution to those WGs is to bury them under a pile of lead. Since every bullet has a chance to score a crit, the more bullets the better.

My solution to the initial WG assualt was to RUN. The main chamber has 4 sides and usually at least one of them is fairly empty. Your first objective is to make a break for that section, engaging in combat only if you outnumber the WGs and no fully armored or power armor WGs are present. Since each of the 4 sections have only one entrance, you can set up your snipers to headshot any WG as the approach, and have the rest of your squad throw everything they have at the WGs as the clear the bottleneck.

It is very helpful to "buy" a level 3 medic to continually cast "raise dead" on your snipers. It may sound a little cheap, but remember, the AI can shoot through walls and fire over them, so it evens out in the end.

@ciceron:

1. One-handed firearms added by my mod are the Colt M1911A1 pistol, MAC M10 SMG, MP7A1 SMG, Taser pistol, warp pistol, Needler SMG, MP5SD3 SMG, and the Nailgun pistol.

2. Correct.


If you want to just knock them down, yes. Which is why MGs are still of varying usefulness versus all WGs. If you want to knock them down and kill them, do head shots with sniper rifles loaded with AP (or better yet, headshots with railguns). If you want to kill them even faster, use headshots with a meson rifle.

Shadowarrior,

Last night, I defeated the initial encounter with the Wargots. The SPAS15 idea was definitely a deal breaker. Laser MGs are definitely the way to go until you start getting gauss and rail tech (which I have not yet).

I have to say that the Rebalance and the Alien Assault mods definitely gives the game a much more X-com feel. I remember the feeling of desperation when you first fought some Mutons, and they just would not die! I don't think I'm quite good enough to use your Heroic Assault mod quite yet.

Speaking of gauss weapons and whatnot, I noticed that the research dependencies for some of the weapons don't seem to be set correctly. A number of the gauss and rail weapons list "plasma weapon blueprints" as a requirement, but you can research them without having researched said blueprints (I haven't done so, in the spirit of the game).

Was this done on purpose?

Thanks,

If you look more closely you'll see that plasma weapons are not a requirement for gauss techs. It is a helper tech. If you have researched plasma weapons then your gauss research will go faster.

I didn't even know such a thing existed. I just saw that there was an "X" in the requirements list and that it didn't keep me from researching. I guess I should take a closer look at the research trees.

Sorry about that. Thanks for the tip.

Hey Shadow, since I made several new weapons and armor, and you are continually expanding the WeaponRebalanceMod I wanted to check if you would like me to send them to you.

If you like them use them if not, then not.
I made 2 heavy armors, 1 medium, 1 heavy, 1 pistol and 1 assault rifle.

EDIT:
I just ran inot the Starghosts.

Given that I control all of America, Africa and Europe, I had a lot of bases and I entered the WG ship with Meson rifles, reailguns and a Gauss Autocannon. Needless to say destroying the ship was easy.

And then the Starghost came. They are friggin immune to everything (onyl slightly vulnerable to energy). My whole tem unloaded all it got into one single SG and couldn't kill it. My team was decimated.
I went to check the equipment file after that and found they have 100% resistance to practicly everything. Isn't that a bit over the top? I have railguns with durraloy bullets - that can pirce trough a mountain (literary) and I can't even scratch them.

anyway, I edited the SG so at least 5% (in some cases 10%) of damage from some other weapons can pass trough. They are still a pain in the ass and I still need a whole team to concetrate fire on a single enemy and empty a clip or two each before it goes down, but it's not invulnerable anymore.

I'd reckon this is part of your mod, so I suggest you check that out a bit.

Feel free to send me anything you'd like for me to look at.

Dear Shadowarrior:

I'm playing your WRM3.17 combined with Advanced Assault2. Needless to say that this combo is MUCH MORE FUN than the standard game (congratulations for a GREAT work to all modders involved).

I'm still in early stages (Wg ship -8 days) but I was checking this thread and I was somehow worried about Trashman's post. If SG are almost inmune to everthing, how are they suposed to be killed? Is there any special technology to research, or strategy is just "use A LOT of energy weapons on them"?

thanks

There is no "special" method for defeating the mod-enhanced SGs. You can try "use A LOT of energy weapons on them". That works, if you live long enough.

It is my intent that players not be able to use a strategy of "empty a clip or two", as Trashman is doing after he edited my mod. The SGs are supposed to have the immunities they have, especially to weapons based on kinetic attack (ie: bullets). Tweaking the mod in such a fashion alters the play balance I intended the mod to have, and is "cheating", since it removes a large part of the challenge.

A WW2 historical analogy of trying to fight SGs with the weapons you've become accustomed to using on WGs is Polish cavalry (armed with rifles and sabres) charging armored German tanks. The predictable result is a slaughter.

The SGs require a radical change in tactics. Prior to SGs, tactics such as "use more ammo" or "use a higher-tech gun" (both of which fall into the same category of "use a bigger hammer") suffice. If using a "bigger hammer" isn't a viable solution to all problems, perhaps it's time to develop a more flexible (or more cunning) approach to overcoming obstacles.

Thanks for that answer!. I see that you are not only a great modder, but also a didactic "strategy-consultant".

I agree completely with your comments, modifying a "balanced mod" to make it easier to kill some tough guys is in fact a way of cheating, which I will avoid.

Lets see if when I get there (meaning when SGs arrive to my game), I can deal with the challenge of finding a creative way of killing them with the tools & skills I would have by that time.

Hey ShadoWarrior, you've probably heard this a zillion times but I just thought I'd take a moment to congratulate you and thank you for your two excellent mods I'm using. (Weapon Rebalance & heroic assault).

I'm quite far into the game now and think without them it might have become a little tedious, but with your mods I'm still absolutely loving it!

Yes the SG's are a complete nightmare to kill but I'm loving the challenge, and Phos Grenades and Flamers are my new best friends!

After some days spended to reading this forum and searching in the web, i should like ask: is this damned MeshConverter.exe top secret app for Altar-autohorized modders only?! How i can obtain this proramm for making some my own models of real firearms for this game?

PS: sorry my bad english, i live in Russia and learn Deutsch in Soviet school 20 years ago

First, welcome to the AS forums.

Second, please do not post general modding questions in my mod's topic (thread). Start a new topic if you have such questions. This topic is long enough as it is without becoming a dump for any and all modding-related questions.

Third, to answer your question, the MeshConverter.exe is an Altar-created program only available for download from the Altar modding Wiki site to people who have become "official" modders (members of the modders group). If you wish to join the modders group you will need to contact someone on the Altar support staff. Send a PM to one of the forum admins to find out how to do that.

If you have any other questions (that are not about my mod), please ask them in another topic.

Thanks for explanations and my apologize for inconvenience

After few days gaming to WR mod i have make a some points:
1: producting time for smoke & flash grenades is error and should be decreased by 1
(this error is legacy of ornginal game)
2: Eagle & Colt pistols HYPERPOWERED! Fire range of Eagle comparable to assault rifles - this possibly only in Hollywood fictions IMHO Real battle range of all pistols is 10-30 meters (comparable with shotguns), but low-velocity heawy bullets give him significant stopping power in this distances. Main advantage of pistols - fast aiming time and quick retargetting. AFAIK.

A pistole range 50-70m.
An assaultrifles range 300-600m.
The sniperrifles has 800-1000m range,but the hungarian GEPARD1 is deadly in 1200m far.MAX range is 2000m.
Shotguns 30-50m.
Search on the NET!

Yes, right. But this maximal range, effective range of fire significantly lesser, and real battle range even lesser as effective. Hitting to target at maximum range practically unreal. As demonstrate bitter experience of "local war's", pistol fire in battle situations effective in range from 0 to 10 meters, SMG's - 0 - 30 meters, assault rifles 10 - 200 meters. Sniper rifles has different purpose - surprisnig fire from ambush, however, for instance, SVD has maximum range up to 1200 m., but effective shot to 600 m. - mission not for everybody.

P.S.: I search on the NET for firearms for some years

Added

Pistols NOT owerpowered?!

added
2 ShadoWarrior:
I'm work on weapon models, this is some low-poly examples of my work:

VSS

Original HK69, not M79 "Blooper"

Remington 870 in underbarrel "Masterkey" variant.

Is it intrersting for mod?

Leave the DE.50 out of this..

Nah. honestly.. the DE.50 is something that deserves its own category in terms of handguns. Let's just call it a hand cannon, and then we instantly have an excuse why it is not in line with the stats of the other handguns.

When i originally made the .50 for myself, i intended it as an effective, yet last resort kind of side arm, that has the potential to blow an enemies head away when well aimed, but has a long retargeting and aiming time. Generally a sidearm i would pick when fighting enemies that do not suffer that much from pain effects.

The DE of ShadowWarrior is (or at least was in earlier versions) a lot less powerful than my original version. With my DE, i could eliminate an unarmored gray with a single headshot. Now think about that, and then let's talk about SW's version being overpowered

Oh, and by the way: HI. UFO-AL is around the corner, so am lurking again to see whats the news. Glad to see this project is still going. Well done, SW. Wouldnt UFO-AS have the stupid scareforce on it, i would install it again just to see how the mod does now.

o/

You can play AS without Starfarce. But discussing how to do that is not allowed on these forums (for obvious reasons), and is off-topic for this thread anyway. I just wanted to mention that it is possible, though.

I've just playd afterlight's demo... And felt like I needed to come here and say good job (once again) on this mod. It's one of the reasons I playd AS for about three times as much as I would have had it not been for this mod.

Looking a bit over the changes, there hasn't been much done in 9 months... I'm guessing it mostly died out?

This mod looks nifty. I'm going to grab it after I'm done with my first play-through. I'm interested to know what the game's developers think about it.

Is this a bunch of stuff that they sit around saying, "Dang, we should have added that"?

Well, AFAIK, none of the AS devs are still with Altar Games (the current devs for AL). Before Altar Interactive (devs for AS) went bankrupt the AS devs were very supportive of us modders. (The AL devs have not been in contact with us modders, at least AFAIK. If anyone in the AS modding community has been actively involved with AL they've been very quiet about it.)

I don't recall any of the AS devs expressing any particular opinions about any particular mods, other than being appreciative of the work we fans were doing to make their game even more popular.

And I haven't played the AL demo enough to notice whether any of the stuff any of the modders (myself included) have done for AS has been incorporated (even in small part) into AL.

ShadoWarrior, this is astounding, two years on and still going! Even though I suspect that your enthusiasm for AS is waning, I'd still like to ask, what is it that motivates you so?

Also, I've (finally) recently acquired a decent laptop that runs AS on FULL DETAILS ZOMG, and life has never been better (especially with my NEW STARFORCE-LESS AS ZOMG). Actually, life was made better the moment I installed your latest Weapon Rebalance mod, and I shed many tears of manly/nerdy joy/ecstasy.

Ahem.

It is a pity that AS will not be patched in the foreseeable future, because you have brought so much into this game, and capable of much more were it not for the currently imposed limitations.

Back to my earlier (a year and then some time ago) post, I can make the long overdue confirmation that the environment in AS is not as destructible as I naively imagined. Uncountable mutants, cultists, wargots and starghosts were interviewed in this survey, and subsequently disintegrated by the excessive deployment of Satchel Charges that was a crucial part of the interview.

Any luck on flashbangs for the 40mm grenade launchers?

Also, I have only recently wandered from my safe realm of ranged projectile weapons (namely guns and rifles) and explosives (limited to the almighty Satchel Charges) to the exquisite art of trapping. Dare I ask for an anti-vehicle mine? I have no knowledge of how an actual anti-vehicle mine is deployed, and I thought that one could probably jury-rig a satchel charge to a thermal/motion detector. Will it disrupt the 'balance' of the game?

When Altar Interactive went belly-up, and Altar Games chose not to continue modding support for AS, my motivation for further AS modding pretty much dried up. I continued to work on AS for a few months during the first half of 2006 solely for two reasons: (1) to complete a bunch of stuff that I had wanted to play with myself, and (2) to complete promises to various individuals on this forum. The remaining items on my "to-do" list (post #1 in this thread) fall into category 2. However, between personal issues (not least of which is my mother's passing away 3 days ago, and my move from Houston to Florida 6 weeks before that to take care of her, plus other sundry problems I'm still dealing with), the impending release of AL (for which I've already begun mod work for), and my intermittent activity in the JA2 modding community, I very much doubt I'll ever finish adding those remaining items into my AS mod. I really don't see much point in it anymore. Better to devote my limited time towards AL, much as it pains me to not finish what I began. Of course, "finished" is a relative term. This mod is essentially "finished" as is, in that there's plenty of "new" stuff to play with (versus a vanilla game) and it's reasonably balanced. The only thing that would truly add the final touch would be more powerful melee weapons. The ranged psi-based weapons I'd planned were to be icing, as adding them wouldn't have affected the mod's balance in a significant fashion. Same thing for the torpedo.

Flashbangs cannot be properly modeled in AS, so there's no point to trying to make one. The in-game effect of what I could create without AS being patched again is useless.

As for mines, IIRC, there's no way in AS to trigger something based on range, much less an item-centric AI. In other words, all existing weapons in AS must be used by a character (drones are characters). There's no AI for static objects, which is what a mine is. I guess you could create a demolition drone that self-destructs. It'd be quite wasteful of resources, and eats up a party slot.

My condolences, ShadoWarrior.

Also, I'd like to thank you very much for the time and effort that you've invested into making the Weapon Rebalance mod. After completing AS for the first time I experienced the 'Aftermath blues' - a slightly 'incomplete' feeling much associated with finishing a good book or UFO: AM, but your work allowed me to enjoy AS a second time in such a different and fulfilling manner that it felt like reading a good book and reading a second even better book, that was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike the first good book.

My condolences as well ShadoWarrior!

Thank you, guys.

My condolences too ShadoWarrior!

My condolences too!

My condolences as well, SW. Also, my sincerest thanks for all your selfless assistance to keep this game interesting.

Here's a question I have:

I'm too early into AS with the mods to see much difference, but from all the reviews it's gonna be great! My question is: it seem that all the stimulants didn't do diddly in the original... are the effective with the Mod?

s

This mod hasn't touched the stims at all. For a full detailing of what this mod does or doesn't do, I strongly encourage you to read the history and FAQ files that are included in the mod's archive package.

Okay, will do. Thanks again.

s

I just read about your mother

My condolences aswell.


Thank you (again) for this mod and (not again ) for sticking to the community after your personal trouble!

Well, I do not really expect a reply, 2 years after the last message posted here, but I wanted to ask this.
It is obvious that you could have fixed the issue with the Medic III promoted soldiers not able to heal permanent damage, as they were supposed to, but you didn't do it.
Is there a reason behind it? I mean, it appears to be a bug, since the initial intention was to be able to do it.

They do heal permanent damage, but not in the strategic part of the game.
Medic III reduces the recovery time your squad members require in hospital as a result of permanent damage.
This is by design and thus will not ever be changed.

I really thought that medic III was supposed to use medikits to heal permanent damage in tactical missions. I guess I missunderstood the description.
Thank you very much for clarifying this.

Hej i play ufo aftershock to :-D and tryed this mod, there is only one thing i like if there cut be in the mod.

Knife/sword whit energi damage 15-25% of normal damage, if posible 50%(2-10% energi 40-48% normal dmg). Text to weapon:
energi made of swinging walking and turning, then charged i to the battery in the weapon found by induction tech.

That armor cant be higher then 98%. (you can allways hit it just how:-) if posible make it harder to hit alien whit 98%.
that give about the same but now theres a chance to kill it if you try hit a 98%. i can kill the sun by heat but its hard;-)

Plating, upgrade to armor, give the armor more protection about 2-15% (low lvl if can heavy armor feat needed).
burning laser about 170 dmg lower then laser. (higher tech then laser).

higher laser/burn laser lvl and lot slower and more battery eating, dmg x2,3 eat x3 more, max 2 shot. (high tech).
(if can 40/60 % dmg burn/energy)
healing gun about 50heal range15m (high tech).

Phosper gun 70 20meter, bullet there burn when hit (higher tech then flameweapons).
Bullet upgrade, (higher then energi tech) you can make bullet there give energi dmg to some normal weapons (30%) and cost x2 then normal.

The pasonics item shuld give a little armor 0-1% even small item can protect you.
flash gun, blinde target (tech higher then laser)

Acid knife dmg 250 + acid dmg /poisen knife (tech way of medic)
genate there can burn longer time then normal in a small radius to protect income tru doors. or make a fire wall if you have casted a lot ;-)
burn 350 dmg time 180 sec. range 2.

i found out that mod i got the wargods trowing weapons can hit me even tru wall im not shure if the fail is done now i have not read all 130 sides yet.
(Cant remember if that was befor mod or after mod)

What is the AP do ?
i cant see big diffence. do it reduce the armor % on enemy or?
how big if its reduce?

can there been talking about a heavy armor to lvl 3 parasonics els theres no big deal take heavy armor feat.
range +5-15% armor range then the highest parasonics armor.

ps. sorry if my english is not that good, hope you can badEnglish to ;-)
i have made a rollplay game based on Ufo aftershock, and try upgrade it whit magic to, you can magic but not easy to be in start at all :-).
i have done my own dmg system, power as i call it is the is the energi in the bullet, if you have a gun bigger then 5 power you have to hold it in both hands, bigger then 10 you better have it to the ground ;-), and 15+ you dont whant to hold it (tank shot) (20 battle ship).
dmg come after i hit (2,3,4,6,8,10 mm/dice system and more) dice depent on where i hit, if the power is more then 0 or 0AP i can dmg, AP i count to as non dmg.
armor take dmg to in my system so if you armor i higher then bullet dont take easy on it thy might kill you in time :-)

hello

this question is surely asked and answered earlier, but is there any possibility to get this mod working alongside the: ACM total conversion mod?
if not.. is it possible to merge some of your unique new weapons with the acm?

ill have to add that im new to this game and therefore a noob

No.

1. How you read codes ? i see thy are 256 bit but no base text to read how you found out to read it.
(ShadoWarrior related)
i have made some change in some games but some i have problems whit.
I got the old UGE program and game like detroit i have made more fun to play normal you dont need the engine about 10 engine becose the older do have better hp and better range.

2. the system in ufo balance needs armor is not 100 % but 99% in real live a barrata sniper normal do a lots of dmg and wargods have one type there is immune to bullet, how can one alien, resist total dmg from a barrata sniper rilfe?
i think the bullet got over 12 hp of energi, it most brake a bone or make som blue marks or trip, even if the armor brakes the bullet total.
psi resist is 100% on robots becors of no brain ;-)
(a tank real live is not immune to a bullet of barrata sniper rilfe).
sword can be made lesser dmg to make it more real live, to balance the weapons.
250 knife
400 small sword
600 katana
D swords max on 850

Plz give one tell (ShadoWarrior) so i know what you thinking of the ideer.

As you statet its an Alien. Since its SciFi and real advanced aliens are involved its thinkable that those aliens invented a material that absorbs 100% kinetic energie hence total immunity to bullets. Well AP bullets do atleast some dmg since they don't do all there dmg in kinetic energy some dmg is cutting.
Also this mod isn't dedicatet to make the game as real as possible there is still Game balance to think about.

Those Whargot's are suposed to be a shock when they arrive and scare the shit out of you. And thats what the changes in this mod did to them. But if you get the right weapons they aren't anymore that threatening.
And you arent supposed to use bullets against WG's. Try Laser....

Like every unknown new threat you have to adjust to it after you encounter it.

So... it is true that you are not doing any more of this mod ShadoWarrior?

Correct. I will do no more work on this mod.

Blast, I was looking forward to more updates on this mod specifically the P90.

Be grateful for what you've got alredy , no one paid ShadoWarrior to do the mod and i bet it took alot more work than most of the people here (myself included) realise.

I know that. I guess I didn't word my previous post right.