Aftershock has some brilliant plot elements - but dare I say; some inconsistencies...

First; let me disclaim - I realize it's always easier to criticisize or back-seat drive than DO;
and editing - in writng is a completely different skill than writing.
Further, some of the "inconsistencies" are completely intentional, an excellent plot device representing that different factions or research levels have different perspectives on what has and is happening. Also, some of the inconsistencies stem from re-tooling a story already told in AM ( and in AL, some of what happens in AS seems inconsistent, of course).

Nonethless, playing AS again - mostly to try mods and playtest my own budding modifications- there's quite a few things that glare out that didn't register the first time around, patially because I was in awe, partially because you don't have the knowledge to second-guess what you're being told. I think largely, there are some actual inconsistencies simply because the various, often brilliant elements, simply weren't co-ordinated as well as they were written ( editing is a seperate skill.. so is managing and directing a project team).

In interest of some plot .. modifications I was interested in; I started looking at what could and couldn't be done.


In the short term: I was trying to change the events/missions so that when the Wargots attack; they attack a BASE
(interetingly, I just noticeed the starghost attack clearly states they ARE attackinga base - i suppose this was changed at some point)

anyway; i've poked around in a few of the mission & event files -

and i figured it was smart to ask now - ( in case I'm wasting time )

is this hardcoded or moddable?

I have a bad habit of learning what i think i want to mod is actually hard-coded. ( let's not discuss longbows in Total war; or trying to make magic swords "sharp" in T/ElementalWeevil... or making zombies grapple. LOL)

Anyway; ideally; I want the wargots to attack the player base, not resource

AND

if they win; instead of it going to the mutants, the cultists take control.
( i was looking at some of the pointers, which now i can't remeber where i saw them, hoping to find the "pointer" where starghosts mission fail/ignore goes from mutant-control to uninhabitable.)

If you could clear up if the attack target , much less result, are even moddable; I'd greatly appreciate it.


Long-Term "goals"/ Issues:
I thought i was original for thinking the Myrm. was actually underwater the whole time (in AM, i always wondered how much of the bio-mass was under-water; and in AS I couldn't believe sea-trade route were "safe" if there are land mutants.. what would the sea produce? !!!.. if the idea of the myrm. underwater driving everyone insane sounds too much like a certain Lovecraft entity; so be it)...
... then i noticed a forumite ( accounting troll, i believe) had already posted fan-fiction "amending" the myrmicol to underwater - so much for originality.

I find it odd the "male" myrmicol don't have a psychic presence... I thought the Starghost was it's 'astral projection' - see below - and kept expecting to have to face the Starghost on the wargot myrmidol missions. (in my original game, unaware of the cultist-base bug, i was constantly crippled due to losing my own bases, and had no idea the starghosts were a seperate ship/race for a good while).

I found it VERY odd that the Wargots don't destroy the Laputa; but that's another issue altogether. (as a Texan, I can't see LaPuta and not hear it with 'Spanish' ears ).

I find it very odd the Cultists need an electronic transmitter to communicate; perhaps a psychic booster, but, really?
The Wargot ship uses an electronic code to decide who can come onboard? REALLY?
Who ELSE does the dang thing think is flying around up there? Is it implying the cultists are making shuttles? Hoping rides on wargot transports maybe i can buy - but if they are making pilgrimages to the 'temple' (talk about the belly of the beast!) - which i can, perhaps, buy - why did we see none of them in the Wargot-Myrmecol assault missions?

My longer-term goal is to "fix" it so that the psionics, not transmitter and codes; are how the wargot's host Myrmie is communicating with the cultists -
the consequence being when you got to the temple; you are on a kidnap mission - for the high priestess that IS the real transmitter.
Only having HER; not the wargot access code, allows you to get on the Myrm
( death shield? my idea is; the MYrm has the panic ability we associate with Vivid Image circlets - and makes the crew kill each other - in turn, implying the starghost has the ability).

Even better, during the attack , she calls for help - so the temple kidnap mission is the followed by a "break-through" mission: through wargot reinforcements. If you're hurt, hope you don't mind stealth...

Blah blah blah... sorry, can't curb my enthusiam.

Proposed modding: (Longer-term)

-Story elements to support my, er "alternate history"
- Starghost may appear in Wargot missions, at least in the "ship".
- Starghost will be given the "panic" ability (which it should have anyway, even if you reject my idea of the SG as the Myrmicol's astral projection...)
- (partially done) change in Vivid Image circlet - it nows confuses, the was-confusion projector I'm trying to make into the panic device, this is for play balance as much as story
- trying to mod some psychic defense -and drop in psychic abiltiy - for each cybernetic component added to a cyborg
- (failed) added 'prone' or crouch requirement to some heavier weapons; particularly the BFG Barrett ( i laugh at the elfin Cultist Psionics shoulder-firing that monster, even though I read it's recoil isn't that painful) - was hoping to further balance such weapons with manuever loss
*EDIT: *FIXED*
- making the Barrett primarily used by Cybrogs, and MSG (or Dragonov) the trademark Cultist Psionic Sniper weapon
- WArgot overhaul. Cosmetic - and otherwise. They should be frightening; and not solely by appearances.
- (complete)Plasma weapons: the Wargot double-barrel has a burst mode that is both barrels firing. other plasma rifles, including human plasma weapons, have only single-fire mode. *cosmetic change: human plasma rifle now looks lie the only plasma most people ever see: Lightning.
- (complete)Laser changes - all the rebalance commentary i read on this seems to overlook that smply reducing the recoil of lasers makes them much more effective, even if nothing else is changed...
- Civilain weapons: it's post-apocalypse and everyone has exclusively top-line military weaponry? Expect to see mutants and militia types with revolvers, hunting rifles, and double-barrel shotguns ( ammo capacity: 2 shots or 1 2-barrel burst)
- "area of effect" fire mode for machine-guns ...! I need suppressing fire!
- Ocean-born mutants
- Attempt to utilize unused mission types included in text data files
- near-monomolecular blades that have improved armor penetration
- psionic suits that improve protection by user's psychic stat * cosmetic "runic" alteration to psionic suit
-"Psionic Ninjas" - they have natural cloaking ability, why wouldn't they find a way to channel their psychic powers into a , for example, sword? "sword" weapons with powers currently associated with the projectors. ( beware psionics with the stalker ability)- after all, ninjas and assassins [i]were[/] "cults"
- Various retexturing because I think I'm an artist.
- other ideas I forget for now.

Thank you for your - I hope- interest and feedback.

The game logic in Aftershock is almost completely hard-coded and sadly that also includes mission target selection and handling of the mission outcome.


AFAIK, ShadoWarrior successfully implemented this feature in his Weapon Rebalance Mod. You could download his mod and reverse engineer it to see how it's being done.

I haven't tried modding the game as much as I love it, so I'm not exactly sure what is harcoded and what is not. IIRC, Shadowarrior managed to make a 'prone' requirement for the Barrett in his weapon rebalance mod, I don't recall how, however.

You have a point with the sea routes. Indeed, I believe that the developers had planned on having missions on ships out at sea for that purpose, but didn't make it into the final game (hence the loading screen of the soldiers on the boat).

Your idea with the whole needing that coding device to board the Myrmecol is a good one IMO. It makes a lot more sense.

To be honest, it has been quite some time since I've played the game all the way through and read all the research subjects, so my UFO history is certainly hazy. I really like how UFO:AL brings a lot of this together (warrior races taken from their homes to serve as the Myrmecol's armies and such). Again, IIRC, Starghosts are just like the Wargots; a race taken from their planet, being psionically controlled by the Myrmecol to take planets to create biomass to call for mates, though I hace no clue why a male would need to create biomass if the females call the males... or do I have that backward.

Oi... I'm going to have to play the game through again

Thanks for the response!


It's often the case that whatever it is you want o fix.. LOL.
I expected as much - but some of the text files and events seriously made em think i was onto something. I suspect the atatck base part was changed soemwhere in development, much like the cultist last-base "fix" that feels more like a bug.


You're right - and i had thought he had, too. I'm balancing his, okim's, and other mods (grief, how many games am i playing here; lol?) - so i tend to easily get disorganized on that... (even with search and multiple back-ups).
So i double-checked my Rebalancemod(1.62) equipment file and was QUITE ANNOYED to find, not only did he fix that, but that's EXACTLY what i had done...
i thought
more than likely i mis-typed "prone" or some silliness; but thought "Prone" was invalid, rather than me merely sloppy. I'll be damned.
Thanks for setting me straight - I won't give up so easy next time.

Both the wargots and starghosts are on males responding to the females call, either they have warrior races onboard because that is their role among the myrmecol race, warfare, OR it could be they brought warriors to deal with any races left behind by the female after the psionic wave (my guess would be that the female is too busy getting ready for the males (the whole infested moon bit) to properly get rid of them herself).

Yessir,- sorry, Gorre - i swear i responded to this - i probably... posted too fast/wasn't logged/ had 3 windows open ( i forum while i'm modding whilst trying to organize my music collection files while playtesting my changes)... so it didn't "take".

Anyway; yeah that was actually made clear in an "autopsy" research in AS: the starghosts are a humanoid races projection - later in AS (I didn't get far enough in AL to get it's take/'re-boot' of the story) you find out that's part of the Myrmy/Yog Sothoth/Tyrannid/Zerg life cycle/breeding ritual.

However- I did say I wanted to overhaul part of the story - a seperate issue from the mod mechanics. It's not that i'm unclear on what Sg are supposed to be (anymore); its' that i thought it was a bit weak and disappointing a turn (and the wargots were less of a fierce jihad/burning crusade than I'd expected). I also, personally don't like that these "advanced" alien races (Ret's and Sg's) are victims of what us "upstart apes" can so handily defeat (partially a matter of tone - i like horror and underdog-ness), and I think that (myrm's) was as much in mind in AM, as Darth Vader building C3pO was in mind when the first star wars was made.
It could be argued of course that the more psionic races are even MORE vulnerable to the Myrmy psychic "Call of Cthulhu"...
But again, this is flavor and discussion - like A-Troll saying mama myrmy shoulda been in the ocean (IIUC)...
It also seems weird to me, as you said the inconsistencies of what or whom is making the biomass - the 'female' needs males to bring "riders" to do this....?
reticulans, and starghosts that have a pillar of killing fieldness not unlike the wargot ship?
i think you, like I, perhaps feel like she should BE the biomass, growing like a monstrous parasite...
(biomass? can't say biomass without picturing Zerg, can't say Zerg without saying tyrannid, etc.) - like i said, if i were to suceed in modding the story, it would just be more horrific and monstrous.

Overall, I think mostly they just had a lot of ideas that didn't get fully ironed out between them in implication (e.g., stasis generators...there's a can of plot-worms for ya -let's ask mr.niven) - seperate from my personal opinions/preferences.

AS is awesome and FUN, but the more you like you the more you catch, IMO, that like the unused/unfinished features in the program(like the freighters mission maps.. or emp or the unused cursors), they had more love than time; and just moved on to AL.

If you think I'm nuts for connecting too many strings...

I would think the warrior races holding up in the Myrmecols is for fighting over the female. That'd be neat to see, eh? Too Myrmecols going at each other, the warrior races going at each other all around. Good stuff

IT's pretty simple actually, The myrms seek out races they can easily control, and even then they can only control small groups at a time (they need to remain undetetected if they don't want to start a big hunt for them sp they never developed large scale "remote control" abilities, this also explains why the female myrm doesn't just mind control us "upstart apes" to not interfere), also, the fact that the reticulans had to steal battleships to travel to earth suggests that the female is much smaller in it's initial form then the males (males being big ships able to house many warriors), possibly resulting in a smaller mind control capability then the male versions.

As for the biomass, it's the myrms calling device that when finished, comes to life then dies with a psychic "cry of death", this anyhalates most psychic races (retics) or leaves them in a zombie like state unable to interfere with the myrm's further development (preparation for the arrival of male myrm's), the reason we survived with no ill effect is the fact that before that point there where no psychics among humans, so we didn't even notice the psychic wave, only seeing the biomass (aka mycelium in the retics language) wither and die after the event (infact the event caused the creation of the human psychics and cyborgs).

The fact that there aren't any transgenants (or mutants) in the water is because they where reticulan made creations to destroy the humans on earth once they encountered them (some of them where created by capturing humand and turning them into slave-warriors still capable of wielding weapons, but not capable of thoughts beyond killing humans.

On a final note: the storyline changes between AM and AS:
In AM you win by destroying the biomass and fending off the retic attacks, at one point you are aproached by the retics asking you to join them in their effort to build their super computer (that's the idea the myrm implanted into their heads), doing so loses the game.

In AS they go for a what-if scenario:
What if the council of earth (the player in AM) had actually agreed to the retics request and let them destroy earth for their grand experiment?
The retics evaquate the council and a relatively small amount of humans up to a laputa built from one of their 2 battleships, now right before the events in the AS tutorial (contained in a small comic that came with the special edition of the game) that laputa is destroyed and some people escape in shuttles to the other laputa (the one inhabited by reticulans), this is the start of the tutorial (you start on the outside of the laputa fighting your way in and clearing it so you can take it over), the rest of the story plays out with you in full control.

As for AL, that follows the AS storyline, the retics helped a group of humans start a colony on mars in order to save the human race (a large chunk of humans is in deep stasis in the central complex (the cryogenic monument)), the rest of the storyline runs separate from the one in AS since your only comunication with earth is with the cultists at first, and the laputans later.

All in all they follow their own story pretty well.

Edit: missed Shadowkeeper's post in reply.:

Good clarifications! -though I was aware of these; despite not finishing AM ( dang aftershock seduced me ) -but i appreciate that anyone reading this (ie; no one cares, ) now has it clarified what it is i'm discussing changing, and all in one place. /salute
Oh, and i never got to read the comic book, and ebay is out of collector's editions. ( sad Xmas for me)

I think we can agree that AS really retells what happened in AM for it's alternate "what if you deal with the Reticulans" history, adding the myrmecols; I don't have a problem with that. ( obviously, since i'm in love with AS)

Anyway, not to be defensive, but it sounds to me like you think my disagreements are based on ignorance rather than simply a differnce in informed opinion based on tastes. Where i disagree is I think AS is loaded with story inconsistencies - the temple codes, the myrmycol weakness, the pointless wargots, the moon-base... I could go on - but I MEANT my disclaimer that it's easier to criticisize than it is to create-
Nonetheless, this is what I want to mod in - and I wanted to post my ideas of what could be changed. Certainly, not all the fan-fiction follows 'canon' - and we shouldn't get stuck on canon in a story that is a "what if" of the original story, anyway.

Further; I had FORGOTTEN about the reticulan transmorgants in AM -good point- for AM thats consistent - in fact everything in AM is very internally consistent ( and surprisingly original a take on the subject matter), but the wide variety of mutated earth-life in AM are caused by the spores, IIRC. Doesn't explain why the spores didn't mutate sea life; however. Maybe sea-water kills it?
however: SO.. how is psychically shouting across the universe "remaining undetected"?
But I like your reasoning/inferences on the limitations of the female Myrm; tho' I think she WAS interfering - thus the cultists before the arrival of the Wargot-Myrmy. Also: ...yep; she's got the "call of cthulhu" going...

For Aftershock, in adding myrmecols to the story, the mutants and transmorgants would, I assert, be something QUITE different, and if you are interested in HOW so, please peruse the original reply, following.
Again; Thank you for your reply, thoughst, and clarifications

...Well,That's pretty much exactly what AS says; altho' the reason you probably didn't remember it that way is nothing ever happens to give any impression the other races are fighting.
But here you go:


The strength of this is, it maintains consistency with AM that the Retciulans (rather than the Myrm-Soth-Rannid) were the ones creating the biomass. The weakness is, beyond the inconsistencies of retro-fitting a myrm. into the AM storyline; that it implies the Myrm cannot make it's own bio-masss ( a little odd) and that the big one, carrying the wargoths, is apparently hydrocephalic, since it got servants too dumb to make biomass.
I absolutley do not buy it cannot make biomass- in fact i said else where the "spore" from the AM introduction - what started the mutations - should in fact BE the beginning of the 'genetic subversion'/imprgenation of Gaia... it didn't even buy us a drink.

My take on this would be a bit nastier, and with apologies to Geiger and the rest of the Alien creators, and to Lovecraft - here's how i would do it (in effect this is the core of my mod concept):
a "loaded" female myrmy (a "space hulk") arrives at planet X - in this case, our "unsuspecting human world"--
and 'imprgnates' the biosphere - like a giant FaceHugger. Once the tranformation has begun, it would land and begin to physically merge - it wouldn't "make" bio-mass - it IS the biomass ( like reticulan growing one of their ships around it) - it could be thought of seeing all other life as "stem cells" for it to absorb and direct...
In efefct, this would be a "chrysalis" stage - it's no longer mobile, and it's pupating...
IT grows, and ultimately it gains enough life force to make the psionic "mating cry", attracting the mates. It has, in effect entered what I would call the "male" phase of it's life (guess i'm implying the "host" myrm is more "male" now - it has to service a 'harem'; and it's going to 'impregnate' it's mates with added genetic information). The mates then; once they defeat any remaining resistance to safely land, EACH would ...exchange genetic information with the "host", perhaps gaining a "eggs" or "sperms" load (the spore in AM?) that the now "pregnant" females take to new, unsuspecting 'host' worlds .
Lots of new worlds.

implications/ consequences:
well for one,
NOW HOLD ON. Other than Deus Ex Machina/ the script says so , HOW do we know this? There's only so much you can see from orbit - and we never checked BIG chunks of the earth's surface - including the poles - there's uncounted caverns... not to mention any one of the reticluan wrecks may well have held the Myrm - or been the myrm.
Last but absolutely not least; she could very well be in the ocean.
"Hybrid Children Watch the Sea, Pray for Father, Roaming Free..."

*EDIT: on researching Shadow's points, since i hadn't finished AM; i found out about the final moon mission when one destroys the source...
"So, this is the end. The enemy is vanquished. The great teat that fed the Biomass – the source of the mysterious greenish liquid that was turning Reticulans into Biomass nodes – lies destroyed. The scientists say that it does not come from the Reticulan home planet, but that no longer matters. Now all that matters is that the Earth is free again, free to be reborn ."
So the player knows that in the AS timeline, with the Council of Earth never destroying it - instead dealing with the hybrid/rebel Reticulans - that the 'unknown' is revealed as MamaMyrmecol, and was waiting on the base the whole time ( i theorize : still psychically interfering) - but since the folks on the laputa probably never played "afteramth"; I still assert them knowing she was on the moon is pure Deus Ex.

I expect the added complexity of programming underwater environments is the only reason the moon mission wasn't in the mariana trench, anyway.

SO for one, I'd want to change this, somehow.
The implication for mutants is, they are all hybrids with some alien DNA- this also implies that the crew of "spacehulks", and the 'original' core of the cultists, would be Hybrids.
It also implies - as per the cover of aftershock - that the reticulans here on earth would be hybrids. Psychically crippled, perhaps, but no doubt "gene-stealer'd". This at least might explain why provinces in AS couldn't distinguish between Mutant and Reticulan ... by this implication the Reticulans would have mutated as well, and both variety of Mutants should be servants of the Myrmecol.

* Expect the beginning of the game to quit being so easy.

You may recall that in X-COM Apoc, the Psionics were, in fact human-Alien hybrids - stock humanity simply hasn't evolved that far, psychcially ( or we 'selectively bred' against the trait by burning 'witches'?). Perhaps the alien psi ability only works on races it has a "gene code" or 'psi frequnecy' for?

I mentioned the Wargot Crusade" aspects of my mod -
perhaps making that and the "Myrmecols are NASTY" -complete with hybrids, the different temple mission, and nastier "mutants"should be a seperate mod.

"Proposed modding:

- Myrmecol will be given the "panic" ability (which it should have anyway, even if you reject my idea of the SG as the Myrmicol's astral projection...)
- (partially done) change in Vivid Image circlet - it nows confuses, the was-confusion projector I'm trying to make into the panic device, this is for play balance as much as story"

- The changes i made in Vivid circlet of Mod Annoynace simply rendered it ineffective, and giving it's influence ID to the confusion projector; even while changing the area STR from VisEnemy to target did no good -
I believe my ignorance of the EFFECT field is killing me -
I know i read, but now cannot find, even with search, Shadow's post on the effects - but i recall it said there was a list available only to the modders group.

*EDIT: found post by shadowwarrior re:effect list

SO: Requesting to join modders group.

Don't get me wrong here, I by no means would suggest you are ignorant, I merely wished to throw in my (limited) POV in there, my knowledge has holes in it (as you noticed) I really should play through AS an AL again

Your ideas are very interesting and I look forward to seeing the results of your work .



My view on this is the myrm tries to stay undetected untill it is ready to mate and knows reinforcements (in the form of males) is on it's way, as it is (imo) a solitary creature by nature, also the fact that the deathcry practicly disables any psychic creatures close enough to perceive it, the likelyhood of detection by such species would be minimal at best (taking for storyline purposes that the power of the cry diminishes into a nearly imperceptible wave that only other myrms are attuned to, ofcourse this is guesswork since they never go any deeper into this fact in the game.

The cultists imo is indeed the myrm at work, trying to hamper the human resistance (myrm can only control "small" groups of people, not entire civilisations, atleast that is how I percieve it taking what we know about how the myrms operate (since the female myrm no longer had the retics to control she sought out another group of slaves to bend to her will, again as I perceive it)



All valid, altho' my guess is that the female myrm can produce the biomass substance but only in small quantities, instead rellying on the race it brought along to take that amount and mass produce and spread it over the surface of the target planet.
I didn't mention the males fighting eachother because gorre allready did and I felt it didn't need repeating, but yes, the warriors the male myrms bring are to fend of any adversary, including other males (but I think they would have been better of grabbing humans as their warrior race, since neither the wargotts or the starghosts seem up to the task ).

Ofcourse all this is up to debate, and everyone will have their own view (and some, like yourself, even make new storylines to their liking, and imo any story made with such enthousiasm is worth all the attention it can get.) (not to mention discussions like this can sometimes enkindle fresh points of view in all parties, resulting in even better stories)

On that note, canon is there only as a guide for those who want to follow the original story to some extent, it is by no means law, and many opening have been left in the AM/AS/AL storylines to allow for much variation, while I personaly prefer to stay with the original story in most games I play, I still like to see how other people wish to interpret any given story, even if it becomes something else entirely.

Good response, Keep -
before I respond to it; let me say; once again embarassingly enough, another of my 'un-posts' didn't take - no doubt from trying to edit at 04:00 with multiple windows open and little sleep.

So the message you responded to was un-edited with what i learned, for which i apologize. it did make it into my sig (the myrmecol horror mod link) - so sorry that the message you were seeing was 'obsolete' so to speak.

When you brought up how little i recalled of the transgenants - i couldn't recall if they were designed, random mutations, hybrids, a combination - I went to check that.
I'm still not clear on that, but the impression i get is that it's intentionally unclear, and in fact that's exactly what the player begins to learn - not all the transgenants are consistent with their original interpretation of them being reticulan-designed. Aftershock purposefully follows this; saying "mutants" repeatedly. http://www.ufo-aftershock.com/pages/enemies.html

In looking this up however, I found out how right you were in that my not finishing AM changed my perspective on everything.
I was under the mis-understanding; due to my ignorance of AM's ending, that that the PlanetMind was anyhting but another "AI gone out of control" story, and that the idea of another power corrupting the reticulan 'rebels' was new to AS. In fact, the only 'new' thing is revealing the answers to the clues/foreshadowing in AM's story-arc.


Well; don't i feel less original now?

The reticulans mutating into biomass nodes : is a clear a clue as could be given, I just didn't get to that in AM. Also; as one learns more of the spores:" It is possible that the spores are intelligent beings in their own right; the coordinated nature of their actions would indicate a form of group mind. This implies that the spores, the transgenants, the biomass nodes and Planetmind are all part of a complex life cycle of a single organism. If this theory is correct, then it follows that thousands or even millions of worlds have already been ruined by this organism, and the Reticulans are reduced from a position of leadership to errand boys."

So, the groundwork for what i was implying was all already laid in AM - I would just say I wish they had run further with it. (assert proposition --> follow implications).

To Shadow's Post:

Thanks, sincerely. I realize ina lot of ways AL is a more developed, polished, and stable game - I just love AfterSHock's story/concept atmosphere more ( as i loved AM's) - I tend to like post-apocalypse. AS , in my opinion, just didn't get finished in some ways (they moved on to AL?) - people say that about the code and bugs and unused features all the time, I just feel the story wasn't fully realized, either -and as much as the firsr generation of modders polished the mechanics, I wanted to try to polish the story - but of course you get my 'take' as edit-or or re-mixer. Thats' what my mod would be - nsatier mutants and bio-mass consequnces.
In turn, talking to you (Shadow) has made me realize how much i missed out on by not finishing AM. I fear my saved game got formatted, but I may just - as i learned in replaying AS play-testing, it's quite a different experience the second time around.


Frankly, I'm not sure you haven't put more thought into this than they had time to - there's alot of Deus Ex Machina in the second title.
I did want to point out, the Rebel/hybrid Retic's thought that they could use PlanetMind - now revealed to be Lady Cthulhu, so to speak - to disable the coming "Old Grey" fleet - and sure enough, in AS, when the grey fleet gets here , "something" gets them - a deep space disturbance? - Deus Ex Machina again; or was it her? If it was a directed attack, rather than a "shout", would we have known?
To question/extend your thoughts on the psi-call, perhaps like when you attack flatsters or such psionicaly, or how psi's see other psi's, non-psychics, or psychics that the myrm's don't have the genetic "frequency" for, just don't get it - or get the full effect.

I want to follow the implication at the end of AfterMath and that begged by the spores -that the biomass and the spores ARE the 'new lifeform' -the myrm herself-(previous post)-
which i think is a "valid" interpretation of the end of AM and some of the themes in AS; I just think they under-implemented them.


I agree so strongly that I am making a Wargoth Crusade mod to make them formidable ( and they can't make biomass - so the first male' myrcol really chose oddly). The Starghosts - hi beastman unit prototypes, nice to meet you - were quite a disappointment, too - and beg all kinds of story logic.
Partially, this is an issue coming from it being a game - the enemies have to be defeatable - (the Reticulans in the first game were much more of a challenge but you often wondered gwy fighting their ships wasn't like a biplane against a Raptor). I have the same issue with the AS mutants, and we see why there have been so many "more/tougher enemies" mods. This is also what i was poking fun at with my "upstart apes" comment previously - mankind seems awfully good at handily defeating cosmic horrors and advanced alien races.
And the myrm that's been here a while IS grabbing humans - the cultists - and they often prove you right.
Which brings up another likely story inconsistency - unless the cultists were the servants of the Wargot's myrmecol ( it was in contact with them apparently - he has some range i guess: this train of logic would dispute our point that the female was using them durin the 50 years. Now i need to look up in Aftershcok how long the cult has been around).. as i was saying - unless the cultists are "his" creation, why are they co-operating with the wargots?
BTW: You remember the cultist "prophet" that talks smack to you upon starting missions - the masters (Plural) have arrived, lalallala..
Tell me he isn't biomass-infected. Tell me he isn't turning into a "biomass node" like the corrupted reticulans.
also -Look at the bodies at the beginning of AM - that's not all rot - some of it looks like Growth. To me.

So; add to my lovecraft and geiger comparisons, the mandatory HG Wells comparison - the Martian "grass".
Oh ? Is THAT why you hate After shock?

Take Care, thanks for giving me an idea-bouncing baord - that's what forums are for!

I tried to edit the old post and I messed up, oh well it was so long ,intricate and cross-posted i could care less at this point.

Anyway; as i said privately, checking some of AM (particularly which transgenants were designed and which were 'natural' mutants of the biomass); I realized nit finishing AM left em at a bit of a loss, not just to the details i couldn't remember, but thta i hadn't actually finished the game.

So, for all my "i'm not ignorant" defensiveness, it turns out i was pretty ignorant of a major plot twist.

You see, in AM; I thought - as I'm sure was the intent - it was completely the Reticulans to blame - after all, they "grow" their ships - which look alot like biomass, around them,they have weaponry that looks biological, etc etc.
It appeared to be a "build an AI smarter than you; it takes control" ...

i was unaware of the moon mission that reveals the biomass isn't reticulan in origin:

"If you complete the game by successfully winning the lunar base mission, the following message appears on your screen:

"So, this is the end. The enemy is vanquished. The great teat that fed the Biomass – the source of the mysterious greenish liquid that was turning Reticulans into Biomass nodes – lies destroyed. The scientists say that it does not come from the Reticulan home planet, but that no longer matters. Now all that matters is that the Earth is free again, free to be reborn."
The myrmecol may be new to AS - answering the biomass call that happens in the AS alternate storyline - but that something was there sounds pretty clear.

Anyway; it still seems like some inconsistencies arise from not having thought out the details ( i.e., the myrmecol has to be transported in AM, she didn't land on th earth as AS research says they are supposed to ,etc.) -
but nonetheless, obviously the seed of the idea was already there in AM.

I'll respond to this before I read the rest of your post: This image is actually the reticulans bio-armour (it acts as a life support suit and absorbs damage to some extent, as I understand it it's supposed to regenerate but nothing to that effect is visible in actual gameplay)

Uppon reading more of your post I feel I need to point out one tiny little detail:
The reticulans experiment in it's complete form:



This possibly explains a few things:
Q: why didn't the female myrm land on the retic planet and use that?
Possible A1: It didn't want to risk detection by alerting the retics hive mind of it's presence.
Possible A2: The retics planet wasn't suited for growing biomass.
Possible A3: whatever you make of it ;D
A (as found in the ingame storyline):


Q: What are biomass nodes made from?
For this we need to move to the next part of the storyline:

Possible A1: This suggest that the spores directly form the nodes from the "fertilising" agent the retics bio-weapon is supposed to create.
Possible A2: The spore takes a lifeform and transforms that into a node (imo the least likely scenario, but possible nonetheless).

The thing about the storylines in AM and AS is that you only know as much as your researches in the game do, wich is not much at all, and sometimes you need information you get later to make sense of information you got earlyer.

Another thing to take into account is that the cultists revere the biomass, in fact they tend to live solely in biomass infected areas and actually attempt to make it grow, this makes me think that they have indeed been manipulated by the female myrm at some point but that that influence has stopped and the cultists are acting somewhat of free will (perhaps the female used her last abilities before she nestled completely into the moon to instill this ... "religion" in them. Perhaps this also explains why the cultist leader is covered in biomass, they've been living among biomass for so long that some of them have actually started growing into the biomass they are attempting to grow. Ofcourse it's stil a question as to how the cultists are able to propagate their beliefs so easily.

Also, it is doubtfull that the cultists where in contact with any of the male myrms before their arrival, as this bit of data suggests:

This does suggest that the wargot myrm still lets the wargots make their own decissions when it comes to how to deal with what they encounter, probably seeing temporary allies as a good way to get rid of the existing opposition on earth so it can focus more on any other males that might arrive later. This is probably also where the cultists got their communications device, hence why it contains security codes for the wargot mothership (wich as the storyline says gives the cultists global mobility, possibly in the same manner as the laputians travel back and forth between earth and the laputa).

The text about the myrmecol also reinforces my belief (and yours) that the female is a LOT smaller then the males (possibly an early life stage for the myrms as you stated), since they had to bring it with them:

Perhaps this eplains why the female is unable to create biomass on its own?

Ofcourse this still leaves many questions, questions I believe intentionaly left unanswered.

And my question is : ARE YOU SURE? (Are their eyes normally transgenat-goo green?)
Even if you are - and even if we get a signed letter from the artists saying so, my point remains the same - in AfterMath, until the Very End, we are led to believe this is completely a Reticulan creation - as i said, they grow their own ships "around" them, the idea to be bio-mass nodes seemed to be their own, the spores, their wepaons, etc etc.
It's not until the moon mission that you get proof PlanetMind is anything other than just a logical extension of Reticulan technology. Hell, the biomass looks like the reticulan ships and laputa ( go look).
You're probably right about that picture - but the cultist is definitely biomassing(even if he's not a 'node'). In AM :




* I'd like to point out, they explected PlanetMind to have the power to disable the fleet that they knew would pursue them.


It actually implies she DID land ( or was transported to - she seems to always get transported by Reticulans - in AM i don't think they had yet decided she could travel) - anyway; she landed or was transported to that Reticulan world...apparently did her call of cthulhu thing; subverting the Reticulans; and the Retic's flew here - where they'd have time to build PlanetMind before they were caught up with ( the q-port destruction)- they brought the "structure" that was (or housed) the Myrmecol. Recall: "These space creatures land on a planet and emit a psionic field that influences the planet’s inhabitants to perform seemingly irrational acts that actually serve the creatures’ needs. Unaware of the Myrmecols’ presence, the planet’s inhabitants would rationalize their actions as acts of science (as was true with the Reticulans and their experiment) or acts of faith (like those of the Cultists)."
It's not a question of why she didn't bio-mass there : they asked to; were refused, and sought out a new target - clearly her ally/servants could not stand against the whole of the Old Grey empire.
To me; what is intriguing in this is; it makes you ask how they fell under her influence - Did, in fact, that or another Reticulan world "fall" to a myrmecol that tricked them into adopting it's young?
... was it one of a "clutch"... How many others got transported?


"Q: What are biomass nodes made from?"
See above; that was answered in AM. And the "teat" that creates the green fluid of mutation-ness was destroyed on the moon - AS reveals this being to be the myrmecol.
"The thing about the storylines in AM and AS is that you only know as much as your researches in the game do, wich is not much at all, and sometimes you need information you get later to make sense of information you got earler." -true that: and was why i was so mistaken about the end of AM.


It's no question at all: (and i disagree, the influence has far from stopped)
that subverting "inner voice" is what i keep referring to as "the Call of Cthulhu"; erroneously assuming everyone has read HP Lovecraft


That's half the quote( the rest, about the Wargot Crusade, is the root of my other mod) and ignores later research - but it's still a point.
Yet the cultists knew their God was coming - even if "god" didn't tell the Wargoth Rank & File. The cultists were in touch with something.

If you were silly like me; you thought the 'masters' were the Reticulans, and they were going to give PlanetMind another try, as I was unaware of the Myrmecols. I guess that was a plus : me not finishing AM - i was as confused as the Laputans would be by events, ignorant of the revelations of the moon base mission ( which in the AS 'alterante story', never happened). RPG's call that 'player knowledge'
The Cultists were aware of something, and knew when it was coming -the Wargots didn't know - but did their myrmecol? Maybe. Maybe 'Mama Myrmecol' knows how far out the males were. It's unclear whom is in contact with whom. It's still a little odd they are jacking around on Earth when the lady is on the moon.

"This does suggest that the wargot myrm still lets the wargots make their own decissions when it comes to how to deal with what they encounter, probably seeing temporary allies as a good way to get rid of the existing opposition on earth so it can focus more on any other males that might arrive later. This is probably also where the cultists got their communications device, hence why it contains security codes for the wargot mothership (wich as the storyline says gives the cultists global mobility, possibly in the same manner as the laputians travel back and forth between earth and the laputa)."
Sure - the myrmecols use influence, rather than direct mind control. We never see direct mental "domination" /"possession" in an immediate sense - we see a slow, subverting clouding of perception. Had the story ever allowed them direct "possession" abilities, of course, we would have opened up a huge can of worms.

Incidentally; speaking of Cultists and Wargots, I mentioned elsewhere that it's odd that if the Wargots are transporting Cultists, none are on the Wargot wessel - if you remember when you kill the wargot's Myrme; this video plays: Data\Share\Videos\events\myrmecol_dead.ogg to myrmecol_dead_1.ogg
- where the cultist Pontifex ( said always to be in contact with the wargots, you go steal his transmitter in the temple mission ( to break it's code; and yet they don't change the code, and the myrmecol doesn't see you coming.. huh) - anyway, that's the fella who looks like he's becoming a node? (or at least growing into his biomass chair) - he's ON the wargot ship as it goes down...
Rather interesting.

"Perhaps this explains why the female is unable to create biomass on its own?" Canon clearly establishes she creates the green goo that mutates things into bionodes (and the biomass mutates things into green-goo bleeding trangenants), not far from what I was suggesting before I knew that. I simply suggested (as did others) that the "spore" would be part of the cycle - where-as by canon, the spore makes everything into "fertilizer" rather than directly infiltrating it's DNA code. ( admit, would you, that would have been neat - if the spore hadn't killed but rather been the equivalent of the resident evil/28 days later virus - mutating people and making them; ultimately, into biomass).
Canon, however - adds that extra step - so presumably the spore IS Reticulan - which explains the spore-blowers being bio-mechanical in AM - the spores seem to be a retic. invention, rather than native to the myrmies.
Nonetheless, why would she make any more biomass? It's done it's job. Further, even if she did for some inexplicable reason want to make more transmitter, she's on the moon, and i think PlanetMind blasted out the brains of all her servants smart enough to use any kind of space-transport.



I think any time you have a talented design team, not everyone is working to the same... drum.
I think it's pretty clear that they didn't intend in AM that thebeing - later called a myrmecol - was of a race that could traverse space.
I think AS didn't get polished - no one has any problems admitting the code has unfinished features and it was never fully patched - it works, and it's FUN - that's quite a bit to ask for - well, maybe the story is a bit rough around the edges in parts and could have used some polish and further consideration.
I think, especially, that they tied their hands in AM by putting the thing on the moon, and moreso, to HAVE a "what-if" we didn't destroy 'that which was ascending to planet-mind" story, set 50 years later, they had to have Planetmind "fail" even if you didn't stop it as CoE: or it wouldn't be much of a game if it was a giant god-like psionic that had covered the whole Earth in biomass...(unless you want to play a variant on matrix ; i guess)

So: as anti-climatic as down-grading "Planetmind" into 'cheesy one-shot mating call psionic transmitter' is; for their to even BE an AS "what if" story, PlanetMind had to get a downgrade. I was far enough into AM to where some of the trangenants it was spawning seemed PURELY alien, frequently psionic, and often nasty, so to me that's a blow.

Shadow, with all due respect, you seem to continue to reply to me as though I don't nderstand the story, rather than that I think it can be better. I may interpret details differently than you, have over-looked others, or not finished AM, but I still think the story would be better without what i view as inconsistencies ( and you do not).

But lastly; I think the questions were "intentionally unanswered" because they got more interested in doing AL - probably a 'better' game by objective standards ( I like the atmosphere of AS more, myself , and of course my take on AS is fairly creepy - probably because AM creeped me the hell out ).

delete...

Help request!

I need someone ( like...say, shadow?)
who has a better idea of the AS "official" lore to remind me - or maybe just people's opinion/perspectives -

the 2nd laputa - I was never very clear on this (and it's not covered in the comic : thanks so much fro letting me read it , btw)-

the laputa found by the refugees; that is -

why was it abandoned?

did it belong to the Reticulans, they were still using it until Planetmind "blew their minds"?

in some AM stuff i was reading - with screen shots - he mentions Cultists (but he also talks about X-Com, so I never know what in his stuff is really from AM)

I never saw any 'cultists' , or IIRC, other humans, in AM at all - but he implies at a later point the cultists ( of sirius, of course- but thats his running joke)were given a laputa as well...?
uhhh..
I know calling them cult of sirius is a joke; but the screenshots of fighting hostile humans looks genuine - and so i have no idea why--

and i have no idea where the second laputa fit in, ever, in the story.

If anyone can fill that blank in for me; that would be perefcto.
I'm trying to gather if it was just reticulan - the early researches in AS, as well as the presence of Reticulan weapons, seems to imply this -

but i can't remember if it specifically says so; or find anything clear in the event/data files.
maybe I should have played the tutorial?

Clarifications or just opinions would be greatly appreciated - -

2nd Laputa wasn't abandoned. You had to take it from the Rets, remember? (If you haven't played the tut, nvm ) For the tutorial you had to take the second Laputa from the rets. Indeed, the tutorial had you going through the Laputa dispatching rets and such with their own weapons.

Indeed, I believe they had the second laputa for themselves. They used their own craft in AM to build the laputas. However, once the biomass created that psionic shockwave, the rets on the second Laputa went brain dead, if they didn't outright die.

Thanks; Gorre..
I almost never play the tutorial ( the in-game tutorial later in the game did fine by me)- explains that rift in my story-knowledge.

Dangit... so much for plan B.
Runs off to start tutorial.

we'll see if it answers my question of how we got their weapons to dispatch them with ( tho' i guess if lots were dead there's no doubt plenty laying around.)
the idea of being on Ret ships - even in Am -especially in AM - always creeped me out as it's effectively someone's extended 'body.'
I saw unto you , "ewwwwww".
Wonder what those old wrecks SMELL like now...

You don't want to know (bring biohazard suits ).

i think the subtext of gorre's last post was - "but don't play the tutorial, badger - you'll have a fit" - to which i should have payed heed .
especially after reading the comic, i' not sure i entirely like the laputans, lol. Man, who WERE those (level 12!!) guys and where were they when I was having trouble planetside?!

Anyway; since this thread turned into "aftershock book club discussion" rather than 'can this be modded' (who else am i going to shoot it with about AS?) - I'll go with it.

In playtesting some modded equipment, an errant quotation mark led to some nasty crashes - I found it and fixed it, but not before i'd sabotaged my save game (- i should say, my current save game of "vanilla" AS from which i mod; i have 3 installs now ). SO to keep playtesting, I had to restore an old saved game.
too bad, i was enjoying watching the GF "playtest" my wargots against her "militia" ( my B squads)... Sorry, I'm getting to the point.

In doing so; I happened across the cultist research that applies to the discussion of who talks to whom - or not . keeping in mind the research is ever developing (incomplete ) - it does say:
Yeah, thats pretty likely - and we know why the Cultist religion spreads so easily.

Another example of when you get research that appears to be misleading (good show; i say: you're interrogating prisoners who are getting whatever the muckity-mucks tell them, (e.g.: "One interesting fact is that the Wargots’ starfaring technology remains a closely guarded secret of the clergy and the Pontifex." - hee hee. I bet!), so like AM, you keep getting half-truths. ) - but the point I'm getting at is; I had it slightly skewed, having not played the beginning in a bit - the Cultists do know the Retic's aren't the masters - just "prophets". There's several other similar bits, but basically, its starts with saying - they think the masters are coming in a year --
when i read this; I figured "our" supposition was correct - the female must know about when the males are coming (less than a year), and so the contact is just from her.
Then you find out; they DO know:
(in my 'new' game, it's still 6 days out)

...so we can toss around different theories ( i'm sticking with, the female is telling her people a bit - also, i think they myrms could be explained as having a different sense of time, for example influencing the big picture but not mind-controlling in detail) - - but there's awareness if not direct contact. (until the cultist pontifex talsk to the wargot ponti). The male doesn't seem to be talkin' to nobody, the big snob of a star-demon.
The "death field" around the wargot's myrme is a can of worms - since that isn't apparently in wargot technology - but sounds like the death pillars of the star ghosts ( and in turn reminds me of what the biomass repulsors were doing, for our side), it made me think it must be the myrmy's own psionic ability - which in turn led to my whole "alternate temple raid" - which even if you don't buy, I'll hope you'll admit is a pretty nifty mission idea. (esp having to escape as the wargots respond to the cry for help...)

So - no wonder we're twisted. Purposely.
Relately: when you had me looking at AM, I was looking at the shots of the inside of the moon base - the.. things.. in vats -- growing/mutating.

The idea that the laputa is a giant "space husk" - half of a battleship? half of a corpse? I sayeth onto thee, EWWW.

I said before; I'll say again - these games give me the creeps.
most especially this - I never would have seen this If i hadn't been looking up what else I missed in AM... I never made the deal with the reticulans.
If you haven't seen it, it's worth watching:

WHY SOMETHING HAD TO GO 'WRONG' FOR THERE TO BE AN A.S.

HG Wells would be proud, too.

watched "war of the worlds" earlier...

brutal. effin brutal. now i watch it, see the martian "grass" goo and shudder as my mind says. biomass biomass...

ANYWAY:

@Shadowkeeper:

Know you're no huge fan of my mod ideas; but you are definitely well-reasoned and familiar with the AS lore, minor details aside.
So when working on my Wargoths; and ran across something that dropped my jaw; whom would I run to with it...?

ID "Subrace/026::NAME" LOCALE "Myrm Angel" ID "Subrace/026::DESCRIPTION"
LOCALE ^{"The shimmering, almost incorporeal guardian of the Myrmecol we call the Angel is not unknown to us. The Wargot priests wore a sort of transparent tank on their backs inside of which one of these Angels used to float.<BR>Now we can see they can exist on their own. They seem to posses highly developed psionic abilities, beyond the power of our mightiest psionics. To destroy them, we have to rely on traditional weapons rather than on psionic equipment."
END_OF_STR_RES}

WAIT... WHAT?
They were WEARING those? THAT'S what those funky packs were?! ! ?
WHAT the HELL???

I'm just dumbfounded that i didn't have any idea until.. hell, in that game I'm on the MOON already - good timing on THAT revelation.

Help me out here.

IMO it's debatable whether Myrmecol Angel's research description should be considered canon at all since it's impossible to research them in the game without cheating. That entry might just be a remnant of an abandoned plot point the developers forgot to remove from the localization file.

IMO, it's debatable if anything in AS should be considered 'canon' since it's a back-peddalin' what if anyway ...

. (read this thread at all? )

this thread quit being about modding and became "book club" about 20 posts ago...
Anyhow: as to the research: once i read it, yeah, it looks like SOMETHING "biomassy" on the priests back; but i never would have caught that w/out the research. i just now figured out those othr bulbs are . i surmised from research that suddenly became available- cloaking devices.. explains the weird shimmer.

but anyway; an AWFUL lot of AS is remnants of unused this or that.

and really, absolutely right: WHy would you still research AFTER you blew up the moon?(did always wonder why the males ahve no myrm-type defenders - in fact i have a mod for that ; too )

one of my favorites of such is the " firing at the wargot shuttle - we're not even scratching it"...

10 minutes later " we should have shot them out of the sky as soon as they came for us - next time we'll be ready for them"...

wait... WHAT? lolo.
i don't honestly think 1/2 the team talked to the other during development - and not just in using what? 3 scripts - 4? - but for plot as well.

Thats really the crux of me and shadow's "debates" - i htink the story is as haphazard as the program - he thinks it's all consistent. (because he can make sense of it)

i maintain that S.K. making sense of it has more to do with his own storytelling skills than theirs, however. maybe they'll hire him for "continuity editor" next game?